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Seeking Technical Advice

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  • Seeking Technical Advice

    Hi all.

    House of Joy currently runs 2 services in a movie theater (9:30 & 11).

    We rent out the whole theater each Sunday from about 8 am to 1 pm.

    We've been consistently averaging over 300 each week (combined).

    What we are seriously looking at is adding a live "feed" to our venue.

    Heres where we are:

    The available time is restricted to 8-1. We do have a runthrough at 8:am (which inludes about half-an hour of setup time each week). We CANNOT add another service on Saturday night or Sunday morning. So, we're limited to a few options.

    1) New Venue (everything that would house us comfortably is too pricey).
    2) Multiple Services (time won't allow a third).
    3) Some sort of audio/video feed to another theater room.

    Because of the expense of relocating, we're locked into EXPLORING the 3rd option for the time being.

    The 2 rooms we'd be using both have 219 seats in them. In the main "live" room about 20 of those are unusable. In the "feed" room they all would be usable, so we're looking at being able to seat about 400 adults for one gathering. In the future, we could move to 2 gatherings if need be and seat up to 800 adults. Our Children's ministry would run about the same (except larger numbers and combined adult volunteers form both gatherings).

    Do you think this is even an option for us to consider?

    Here's what we'd like to explore:

    1) Technically how difficult is it to send an audio feed to another room and have it sound as close to "live" as possible. At this point we are not able to have 2 separate bands.

    2) Video. What do we need to make this happen? We're looking for the most basic (yet excellent), set-up possible with upgrade-ability built in (so to speak).

    We're looking at reasonably raising anywhere from 20k to 50k to make this happen. IS it feasible?

    We might even be at the place where we can bring someone in (with the appropriate technical expertise) to help us make this happen.

    Your thoughts?
    Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

  • #2
    First of all, what an awesome problem to have. Too many people. Love it!

    Technically what your talking about doing isn't too difficult, but it needs to be done by someone who knows how to mix audio.

    You would have your video feed and your audio feed.

    I won't speak to video, some others may have good suggestions there.

    By way of audio, you could use a splitter snake. Kind of what they would use to send signal to Front of House and Monitor. You could literally have a sound tech in the feed room mixing the audio to the video. He would have complete control over all the audio channels same as the main room. He would be able to make sure everything sound good and is heard properly.

    Equipment wise, you could literally double the system you have right now for audio(minus monitor and mics) and in that situation, it would be easy for techs to mix in either room.

    So the main room would have Live people with sounds sytem and sound tech. The feed room would have video broadcast people with sound system and sound tech.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would agree with inworship on the audio. Obviously you have to have the right person mixing.

      As far as video -- I don't know a whole lot, but is it possible to run a feed to the theater's projector in the other room? I know you'd have to have a theater staff person on site in order to do this, but...

      Comment


      • #4
        Good call, gary. However, all theater projectors are off-limits. We just rent the floor space, not necessarily their equipment.
        Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

        Comment


        • #5
          It would be fairly asy to just get a decent camera fixed on stage and then send that signal with the splitter snake to a projector. It depends what kind of quality you want and if you want any more video production(like laying lyrics over video) to what kind of equipment you'll need.

          I think a big key though would be to buy identical equipment as much as you can for maintenace and ease of usage. People can then easily trouble shoot, manage and operate equipment from room to room.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by blindeyesopen View Post
            Good call, gary. However, all theater projectors are off-limits. We just rent the floor space, not necessarily their equipment.


            That would have been so cool...

            Comment


            • #7
              If you are looking to spend around 50k you can easily hire a company to do this. Basic list:

              Camera and tripod: 6 grand for a High def semi pro grade
              Digital Video Switcher: 5-6 grand
              Amps and Speakers: 5-10 grand
              2 5000 lumen Panasonic projector: 12 grand
              Cabling (using all digital, cat 5 etc) 3-4 grand

              Total: ~40k
              Labor and training: ~4 grand

              Get Fowler and some other AV companies to bid it out for you. Once you have told them what you want to do and they give you a bid sheet, come back here and we will tell you if you are getting ripped off or not...

              Comment


              • #8
                Good advice so far. You SHOULD consider a splitter snake and a separate mixer for the second room if you can. That is definitely the best fix. If you don't, you will get far inferior sound in your overflow room unless you do a lot of work. The live instruments will affect your mix in your main romm so much that in the second room, vocals will seem hot, drums will be absent and who knows what else. However if your drums are isolated and the room is acoustically quiet, you may get better results than average with a 2nd output from the console. If the splitter snake and 2nd mixer are not feasible b/c of money or volunteers, try a couple of GOOD house mics. Put a good stereo reference mic in on the front of your stage and in the back of your room and add them to your overflow mix. These can pick up a lot of what will be missing from a board mix otherwise and require a lot less effort. Just make sure you put subs in the 2nd room. A common thing to happen is the lack of low end in overflows and it really sounds poor.

                As for the video... We just bought a Sony MiniDV HD cam and a tripod for under 2 grand. We have been playing with it a bit this week and it looks fantastic. It is NOT good for video production because it lacks bells and whistles necessary for recording good audio. However, we bought it to put in our sound booth in our new building and pipe video of the service to our green room, nursing mother room and hallways. Again, we got this solely for our distributed video system NOT to be an editing workhorse, although it still will make a great secondary cam. So, I'd jump on at least two of those for displaying a full service every week. One cam alone will get boring quick if its every week and not a once in a while fix. Two or more shots gives you backup, flexibility and creativity in the presentation.

                As for the projection. I would recommend two separate systems in your 2nd room. One for the view of the stage and one for song lyrics, notes, etc. You can have the lyrics feed pass to both rooms with a video splitter very easily. A real nice solution would be to get three cams, one fixed on the wide stage view projected on a big main screen, then mix two other cameras on side screens behind song lyrics and notes. Then get a video switcher that will handle whatever formats you wish to transmit. We just installed FSR Compass Plus switchers in our youth room and our children's room. They will send a wide screen image to a standard projector to give a nice look for less money. Or, hop on a nice wide screen projector and go nuts. Remember in your second room you shouldn't need as many lumens because you won't have to worry about stage light and stuff like that.

                Ok, hope this helps. Ask questions!

                -Travis
                Last edited by dtpuga; 02-23-2008, 11:53 AM.
                Travis Paulding,
                Production & Technology Director, St. Simons Community Church
                www.sscommunitychurch.com
                twitter.com/tpaulding

                Comment


                • #9
                  The advice from travis on 2 projectors for the second room is right on. that would save you a ton of money. Switchers and mixers are not cheap. Especially if your going HD. You could spend 3k on a projector and 10k on a mixer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just remember you can have very nice looking LARGE wide screen projection without touching HD gear. Our facility that opens next week has 4 Christie projectors in youth and children, all are 4:3 aspect ratio projecting on wide screens. In our main sanctuary we have 2 Christies that are native wide screen but not HD. Two different options for getting a current look and feel without the major budget hit.
                    Travis Paulding,
                    Production & Technology Director, St. Simons Community Church
                    www.sscommunitychurch.com
                    twitter.com/tpaulding

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Agreed, you definitely do not need HD. HD had been brought up, so the comparison was made on that.

                      Travis how did you guys do on the prices of those Christie's? We ended up not buying Christie's casue I got the same quality in other machines that were 1/3 of the cost.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't have the numbers in front of me at the moment but our A/V contractor is a distributor for Christie. As for 'other brands,' there just weren't many to pick from in our main sanctuary anyway. Once you get over about 5,000 lumens there are only about 3 manufacturers in the world (Christie, Barco and EIKI I believe), and everyone else sells theirs. I DO remember doing price checking on them last year and our prices with cabling and installation still ran about 55% of prices I was seeing on the web. I think that is the power of bulk buying in a contract though. We did a lot with these guys.

                        -Travis
                        Travis Paulding,
                        Production & Technology Director, St. Simons Community Church
                        www.sscommunitychurch.com
                        twitter.com/tpaulding

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gotcha. I saw kids rooms and such and was thinking you bought smaller models. I agree that the larger projectors are pretty limited. Thanks.

                          It does help a ton to buy in bulk and under contract. One offs are a little harder to deal with on price.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Travis, next time I make a trip to Jesup, I'd love to meet with you and Fred for lunch (of course, I'd swing down to the Island) to check out the facilities and maybe talk a little more about this.
                            Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              this could be done under 10k pretty easily. Some of the HD cameras of today are better quality than the broadcast cameras of just 5 or 6 years ago. A simple video splitter wouldn't be that much if you went with 2 cameras and you can get a decent high-lumens projector off eBay cheap these days.

                              You definitely need a separate audio mix. It would be best if that person had an isolated room even if it meant sitting in a van behind the building.
                              8-)



                              what? me worry?

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