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need input from experienced users

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  • chipshot0701
    started a topic need input from experienced users

    need input from experienced users

    We are planning an upgrade of soundboard and speakers, video camera and need your input.

    what is your soundboard:
    which speakers go with it:
    Power amp if needed:
    power conditioners:
    what camera do you use? is it a good one?
    what is your video switching unit? (selector switch that feeds the various signals to the screens)

    Is your system easy for the volunteer sound person to operate?

    thanks

  • rundmc
    replied
    You're best bet is to talk to an expert and have them create some potentials for your space, every room is different and every church has different needs technologically. We have a Sound Engineer on staff who pieces together our sound system, but we usually bring in a lighting rep for lighting upgrades. Because there are so many variables, I think your best bet would to be to contact experts in these fields to design a system for you.

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  • chipshot0701
    replied
    thank you very much! This info helps me tons.
    I also like the idea of the portable ability of the sub and speaker pole mounted. Makes good use of money and equipment.
    Thanks again!

    Leave a comment:


  • DunedinDragon
    replied
    Originally posted by chipshot0701 View Post
    I think we would need to go with the line array set up as well. Over all do the QSC 12's give you what you expected in sound quality? And are you flying those? I assume you are. Or did you pole mount them on top of the subs? That mixer looks basic enough to be run by the novice. Does it have enough inputs for your live band and possible choir mics?
    Because we set up our sanctuary every Sunday we don't fly the KLA-12's. We pole mount 2 of them over each of the subs. This is also a benefit in that we very often use that system for outside events and it packs up very nicely. We've handled events in a park covering about 2.5 acres and never had a problem.

    The mixer is pretty basic with everything self-contained (effects, compressors, etc.). There are digitial mixers with a LOT more capabilities than ours such as compressors on each channel, more extensive EQ options, etc. But so far we've never really had much problem accommodating whatever we throw at it.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a "novice". We have a young man who's 16 that runs our PA and ran one for his previous church, but it wasn't really all that demanding and was pre-set up for him. I've pretty much coached him along the way about how to set things up, gain-stage, sound checks, monitor versus fronts, and wireless operations... and he's getting the hang of it pretty much over the last year or so. It's not so much knowing where everything is and what it does, as much as how to apply it. I suppose if you get it set up correctly and it never moves and not much changes with personnel or equipment on stage, then someone without much in-depth knowledge about things like gain-staging and eq'ing could probably handle it pretty well.

    The trick for most people (including people who have run other traditional setups) is understanding how a distributed amp system works (amps in all the speakers) versus a centralized amp with passive speakers. For example, if you're getting feedback on stage, should you adjust the monitor send from the console or adjust the output or eq on the powered monitor? With a centralized amp system there are no options like that.

    As far as inputs, we mic everything. We have a direct line from the Bass, 2 mic feeds from each guitar amp, 4 vocal mics, and an electronic drum input. We have one additional line we use for an acoustic simulator pedal for one guitar that goes into the mixer. That makes for a total of nine inputs. We occasionally use a choir with 4 additional mic's, but we've never had a problem so far running out of inputs.

    Just count up all the things you'll be mic'ing and you can figure out where you stand. But remember if you're using regular drums rather than and electronic kit you'll probably need 3 mic's versus the one input from the drum kit.
    Last edited by DunedinDragon; 04-06-2014, 08:39 PM.

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  • chipshot0701
    replied
    I think we would need to go with the line array set up as well. Over all do the QSC 12's give you what you expected in sound quality? And are you flying those? I assume you are. Or did you pole mount them on top of the subs? That mixer looks basic enough to be run by the novice. Does it have enough inputs for your live band and possible choir mics?

    Leave a comment:


  • DunedinDragon
    replied
    Since you posted in two places, I guess I'll respond in two places...

    We upgraded our soundboard and speakers a little over a year ago. We decided to go with a line array system even though the price was considerably higher than a conventional system. The advantage to the line array is the ability to project the sound more evenly throughout the area. In other words, the volume at the front won't be uncomfortably high just so you can reach the rear.

    In our case all our speakers and monitors have their own built-in amplifiers, so there's no need for any power amps. Here's the gear we use:

    Mackie ProFX-22 soundboard
    QSC KLA-12 line array speakers - 2 per each side for a total of four speakers left and right
    QSC KW-181 subwoofer - 1 per each side for a total of two speakers left and right
    Behringer F1220A floor monitors - 1 monitor for each side of the stage for a total of two
    Allen & Heath ICE-16 - 16 channel digital recorder for audio recording of service.
    Presonus Digimax D8 - 8 channel preamp that front-ends the ICE-16

    Our video system is pretty basic right now and we're working on what we want to do with that.

    As far as training a sound person, that's a different animal. We wanted to begin to incorporate more of the youth in the church for participating in the service so we have a young man I've been tutoring on how to do sound. He's come a VERY long way but training anyone to do sound from the ground up is never easy if you're going to teach them how to do it correctly. I use a wireless on my guitar so that I can go out front with the sound person to help him during sound checks and rehearsal. If you don't have anyone well-versed in how to run sound I would point you to any of the number good videos on YouTube that go over the basics of live sound setup, gain-staging, and EQ. Many of them have been made by people running sound in churches.

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  • dtpuga
    replied
    Chipshot, I'm scared to answer this!

    Those questions are VERY subjective and so many factors play into gear selection. There are not right or wrong things here, its what fits best for you. Also, timing is a big factor, what I bought in 2007 for our new building would be completely different today.

    We have a Yamaha M7CL at FOH but I would have Digico SD or Yamaha CL5 if I was buying now. Volunteer operation is important to us, so while Avid and Midas make FANTASTIC sounding desks, they aren't great for volunteers who run about twice every six weeks. If I was buying now, based on what we already own, I'd go with a CL5 because it is a great capability and quality upgrade to our M7, it would still feel very familiar to our volunteers.

    For speakers, I love our Meyer rig. We have M1D arrays, 700HP subs, MM4 front fills, and UPJ side fills. That being said, had I known what the economy was going to do in 2008, I would have bought differently and put more into our FOH console and a little less in our speakers. Our original design called for the M7 to be moved to monitors and a PM5D to get added at FOH 18 months after opening but 6 years later, we still haven't hit phase 2 of the AVL system.

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  • chipshot0701
    replied
    Also need to know if anyone is using QSC speakers with powered sub. QSC12's with the sub. Am looking seriously at them and the center array speakers. Anyone using the Roland m200i digital mixer with Ipod dock and app.? How is it for volunteer users instead of professional sound engineers?

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