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Anyone try this?

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  • Anyone try this?

    Our Worship Band is leaning toward an in-ear monitor setup. Rather than go out and buy a 6K Aviom system [or even a 1K Shure system] we've decided to go with a wired solution with some ART or Rolls boxes. In theory, these three channel "personal mixers" will provide everyone with a personal mix tailored to what they want/need to hear.

    We are using a 24 channel Yamaha Mixer on the chancel [sub-mix for band] and running to a Soundcraft Console for the FOH/Choir Monitors. We'll run the drums on ALT 1-2, the vocal on ALT 3-4 and the rest of the band in the main [sub] mix. The personal mixers are 3 channel boxes so I guess the idea would be for say the drummer, to run ALT 1-2, Main Mix and Submix. For me it would just be the ALT 3-4 and the submix, etc. etc.

    Has anyone done this with relative success?

  • #2
    We used to use the personal mixers and had a pretty good experience with them. The setup you're describing seems a little unusual to me. In our situation (as in most), we were running one of two auxiliary mixes to each box. Those mixes were fairly generic, and then each person's mic or instrument passed through their box on the way to the mixer. That way everyone could turn themself up in their own mix without affecting anyone else. It's a low cost way to get into IEM if you don't have a lot of mixes available. The biggest downside for us was the amount of cable involved (mix in, mic n and out, power & headphone cords for each mixer). Made a real mess of the stage.
    Eric Frisch
    www.ericfrisch.com

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    • #3
      We are currently using wired IEMs for three positions - guitar (me), drums, percussion. We'll be adding the bass player as well for now. We use a Presonus 4 channel amp and either 10 or 25ft cords. We run two mixes to the stage right now - one for the vocalists on the wedges, and one for us.

      I want to upgrade the amp to one that takes more inputs -the board we have has 6 aux sends, plus a mini mixer with 4 separate sends, so we have options there.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by mikeymo1741 View Post
        I want to upgrade the amp to one that takes more inputs -the board we have has 6 aux sends, plus a mini mixer with 4 separate sends, so we have options there.
        http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HA8000.aspx

        8 independant amp sections for for <$150. One of the only Behringer products I can actually recommend after use ;-)
        Eric Frisch
        www.ericfrisch.com

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        • #5
          Originally posted by efrisch View Post
          http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HA8000.aspx

          8 independant amp sections for for <$150. One of the only Behringer products I can actually recommend after use ;-)
          I'm actually thinking about the HA4700 instead. It has some features that the 8000 doesn't, notably bass boost per channel and an Aux input on each channel that can be mixed in - basically a "mix + me" feature.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the reply guys...........so yeah the idea behind using thegroup mixes is to isolate certain instrumentation to route to the main/monitor mixes. Idea being if the drums are in alt 1-2 group mix we can line out alt 1-2 to the main sound desk and a headphone amp and pipe it over to JD on his kit. The stage will be set up to have ALL instrumentation to go to the submix first, rather than lining outt direct to the personal mixer. We're hoping to cut down on stage clutter this way by using 3' cabling from the group outs to the headphone amps/personal mixers. This way the personal mixers will stay in the road case and only a 1/8" cable will be coming from each box to each player on the stage.

            Still ttrying to work out all the cabling as it will be tough to split the grouped signal but in the end we may not have to.....I'm sure it will be a lot of trial and error in the beginning even though we "think" we have a good idea of how it should be set up.

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            • #7
              So you're mixing the band on the platform? That seems counter-intuitive.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mikeymo1741 View Post
                So you're mixing the band on the platform? That seems counter-intuitive.
                I don't know about counter intuitive but it does create a logistic probllem of not being able to hear the FOH while mixing the band. This is why we are sending groups to the snake rather than a main out. Unfortunately our main board snake does not have enough inputs to house the drums vocals and other instruments so the chancel mixer groups the instrumentation and sends 3 stereo signals to the main console......less than desirable but required until we can figure out a more comprehensive solution.

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                • #9
                  ok, let's back up a step- what's driving the decision to try the wired IEM approach?

                  So far, it sounds like the approach you want to take would be a real nightmare to mix, plus the discombobulation of cords and wires are begging to be a 'sound system gremlin' nightmare.

                  Maybe let us know what issues you are trying to resolve, we might be able to come up with some ideas to try that could get you what you want...
                  If we want to go places we haven't been, we will have to do things we haven't done.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike on Bass View Post
                    ok, let's back up a step- what's driving the decision to try the wired IEM approach?

                    So far, it sounds like the approach you want to take would be a real nightmare to mix, plus the discombobulation of cords and wires are begging to be a 'sound system gremlin' nightmare.

                    Maybe let us know what issues you are trying to resolve, we might be able to come up with some ideas to try that could get you what you want...
                    Agreed - to me, it sounds like there are some other system issues that need to be addressed before you're ready to do IEM.
                    Eric Frisch
                    www.ericfrisch.com

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by efrisch View Post
                      Agreed - to me, it sounds like there are some other system issues that need to be addressed before you're ready to do IEM.

                      True that. I'd probably spend the money on a snake that can get all the channels to the main board to let FOH do the mixing. You can run your Aux sends back to the platform to do monitor mixing if you want.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mikeymo1741 View Post
                        True that. I'd probably spend the money on a snake that can get all the channels to the main board to let FOH do the mixing. You can run your Aux sends back to the platform to do monitor mixing if you want.
                        So there are a few reasons to give the in-ear monitoring a shot. The main issues are space and noise. The chancel area is pretty small so between the wedges, mic stands and pedal board the pastor really ends up getting sandwiched during his lesson. The other piece is that the floors really resound through the chancel. The chancel is built acoustically to naturally throw the choir sound out to the congregation so a lot of times during the worship piece the floors end up really coloring the FOH sound due to the chancel acoustic.

                        We just added the band to worship a few months ago. It's been really well received by the congregation and as a whole they are more engaged then they were previously. Without getting into too much detail our sound crew is a group of volunteers. Some are better than others but even our best guy has trouble getting it right....between the monitor and house mix it just ends up being a lot for them to manage. They can turn the choir and lapel mics on but throw 16 channels of band at them and they are going to have a tough time just getting a flat mix, let alone EQ'ing the kit correctly, getting three separate monitor mixes right, monitoring the recording, etc. etc. It gets to be a lot for a pro to do let alone a volunteer.

                        I'm new to the church as well so while I thought about setting up a workshop with a local pro, you always run the risk of offending someone.....sometimes there are pride issues involved and everything else....we will eventually have some folks come in [the IEM idea started with a guy that has been doing this a while.....we had met for a short while and he gave us a handful of suggestions to us].

                        Anyway, right now it just makes the most sense to mix groups and send 3 channels to the main mix. We'll eventually explore the idea of sending a "band specific" snake down bur for now we're going to fool some with the submix and IEM via the personal monitors.

                        I've got a handful of ideas with the groups that will allow us to run 3 or 4 IEM mixes through these boxes and keep the cabling unobtrusive. I appreciate the ideas....if nothing else it's helped me to think through my plan and get a solid equipment list together.

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                        • #13
                          I'm definitely not disputing the benefits of an IEM setup. It just sounds like you're running an unusual setup. Is it possible to run your IEMs from the aux sends on your stage mixer instead of using the sub groups? In my experience, it will be very hard to get multiple people to be happy with the same mix if you can only adjust those channel groups.
                          Eric Frisch
                          www.ericfrisch.com

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by efrisch View Post
                            I'm definitely not disputing the benefits of an IEM setup. It just sounds like you're running an unusual setup. Is it possible to run your IEMs from the aux sends on your stage mixer instead of using the sub groups? In my experience, it will be very hard to get multiple people to be happy with the same mix if you can only adjust those channel groups.
                            I've got a lexicon reverb in one and a Sonic Maximizer in the other.

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                            • #15
                              I'm thinking about doing a mono direct out from the insert for specific instruments [i/e acoustic guitar etc]. That way the groups will be the "band" at various levels but the personal instrument level could be brought to the front of the mix for that specific case.

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