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  • Bassguitarist PS 17:12
    started a topic Needing wisdom BADLY!

    Needing wisdom BADLY!

    OK, every church has issues in their Worship Ministries, I get that. But how do you deal with being the lone voice of dissent? It seems that I'm the only one who is willing to talk out loud about it. I'm not the only one who knows there are some serious issues, but it seems like I'm the one destined to lead the charge, a charge of one. Has anyone else ever been in this kind of situation? The most prolific "Ism" in my little corner of the worship world is "Elitism". Elitism has been a problem in my church's worship ministry for years, it was a problem when I first started attending my church 20some years ago. Now in his defense, the current worship pastor,(who shall be referred to as CWP from now on), inherited this problem from his predecessors. However, CWP has done nothing to try and solve it, in fact he has made it worse during his tenure. And now even Nepotism has become an acceptable thing in the ministry.

    Our church is large, we have multiple locations, with multiple worship teams at each location. According to the CWP, the teams that serve at the primary location, are more important than the teams at the remote locations. The primary location's teams are supposedly held to a "Much Higher Standard" than the others. Therefore only certain, handpicked musicians,(Handpicked by the CWP of course), are "Qualified" to serve at the primary location. Even if you serve regularly at one of the remote locations, you can still be "Not Good Enough",(according to the CWP), to serve at the primary location. This type of elitist attitude does not exist among any of the musicians, this is coming strictly from the CWP. No one seems to care though! I have actually been told by pastors I have sought counsel from, that if I can't live with how the CWP runs things, that I should find a different ministry to serve in or perhaps another church altogether! Has anyone else ever come across something like this?! I could sure use some wisdom here!
    Last edited by Bassguitarist PS 17:12; 09-15-2017, 01:51 PM.

  • Cross Reference
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike on Bass View Post
    Hey, man. Sounds like you are in a tough spot. I completely understand your frustration because I've been there before. I learned some things the hard way that might be helpful to you.

    One, you serve Jesus. In a situation like this, you really learn what it means to do your job as you are doing it for the Lord. So, show up with a good attitude, be happy, serve with intent and enthusiasm. You are right- CWP isn't any better than you- you both put your pants on one leg at a time, as my old man used to say. So don't sweat it. Be you. Serve and have a great attitude in spite of CWP. Don't get all dramatic about it, but just show up and serve. Give the drama to God.

    Let me ask you this- if you assert that the team at the primary location isn't any better or less than the other locations, then why does it matter so much that you get chosen to play there? Is it a bigger crowd? Does it somehow mean you've 'arrived'? Is it really more prestigious? Not to be flippant about it, but why do you care so much about who serves there? You've gotten passed over, so have others, don't take it personal. Easier said than done, I know. But don't give CWP that much permission to influence your behavior.

    Another way to look at it- it's pretty obvious you and CWP aren't on the same wavelength- do you really want to serve directly for CWP at the parent location? If it's such a problem to work with him/her, why do you want to play there so bad?

    Last but not least- they've already said that 'if you don't like it, leave' - take them up on it. I've left a couple churches in the last 15 years because of the drama. There's more than one church that would be happy to have another bass player in their rotation. I'm not an advocate of church hopping, but at at the same time, if the church's value system and culture isn't aligned with yours, find one that is. I've never regretted leaving the 2-3 churches I left. Now it has to be done prayerfully and carefully, and with leaving all the baggage behind. There's this stigma with changing churches that if you decide to leave, you have somehow lost your salvation and you are making a huge mistake and you'll be crawling back. Hasn't happened to me. It's worked out. But- at the same time, I don't talk bad about the churches I left, I don't go into details about how they got it wrong- I just say it was time to move on.

    Bottom line- like Chuck Swindoll says- life (in this case worship ministry drama) is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. If you react through prayer, a clear head, and a heart to serve, your steps will be guided by the Lord. Whether that's an attitude change on your part, finding a different church to serve in or whatever it is.

    Hope the situation works out for you.


    The question I feel needs be answered: Is Jesus whom you are worshipping or a 'worldly church' you are promoting? , , in His Name, mind you? . .
    Last edited by Cross Reference; 03-22-2018, 01:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike on Bass
    replied
    Hey, man. Sounds like you are in a tough spot. I completely understand your frustration because I've been there before. I learned some things the hard way that might be helpful to you.

    One, you serve Jesus. In a situation like this, you really learn what it means to do your job as you are doing it for the Lord. So, show up with a good attitude, be happy, serve with intent and enthusiasm. You are right- CWP isn't any better than you- you both put your pants on one leg at a time, as my old man used to say. So don't sweat it. Be you. Serve and have a great attitude in spite of CWP. Don't get all dramatic about it, but just show up and serve. Give the drama to God.

    Let me ask you this- if you assert that the team at the primary location isn't any better or less than the other locations, then why does it matter so much that you get chosen to play there? Is it a bigger crowd? Does it somehow mean you've 'arrived'? Is it really more prestigious? Not to be flippant about it, but why do you care so much about who serves there? You've gotten passed over, so have others, don't take it personal. Easier said than done, I know. But don't give CWP that much permission to influence your behavior.

    Another way to look at it- it's pretty obvious you and CWP aren't on the same wavelength- do you really want to serve directly for CWP at the parent location? If it's such a problem to work with him/her, why do you want to play there so bad?

    Last but not least- they've already said that 'if you don't like it, leave' - take them up on it. I've left a couple churches in the last 15 years because of the drama. There's more than one church that would be happy to have another bass player in their rotation. I'm not an advocate of church hopping, but at at the same time, if the church's value system and culture isn't aligned with yours, find one that is. I've never regretted leaving the 2-3 churches I left. Now it has to be done prayerfully and carefully, and with leaving all the baggage behind. There's this stigma with changing churches that if you decide to leave, you have somehow lost your salvation and you are making a huge mistake and you'll be crawling back. Hasn't happened to me. It's worked out. But- at the same time, I don't talk bad about the churches I left, I don't go into details about how they got it wrong- I just say it was time to move on.

    Bottom line- like Chuck Swindoll says- life (in this case worship ministry drama) is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. If you react through prayer, a clear head, and a heart to serve, your steps will be guided by the Lord. Whether that's an attitude change on your part, finding a different church to serve in or whatever it is.

    Hope the situation works out for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bassguitarist PS 17:12
    commented on 's reply
    In answer to your questions. Yes, I've talked to the CWP ad nausea um, he thinks he's right and he doesn't care what anyone else thinks, at those who don't outrank him. Yes, I have been passed over to serve on the worship teams at the primary location, so have a LOT of people. No, the teams at primary are great, except that the CWP has turned the worship leaders into nothing but lead singers. CWP has completely taken over set lists, arrangements, leadership of the team on stage, etc. Yes, there is a process to volunteer to serve with the worship ministry. But Where or IF you end up serving is strictly at the whim of the CWP. No, we do not do any kind of broadcast of our services. The "High Standards" that apply to the primary location worship teams are a creation of the CWP. The primary location worship teams are no more, OR LESS important than any of the other teams! We are all doing the same thing, leading God's people in worship. I don't have a problem with anyone who is tasked with scheduling of the worship teams, provided that he/she does it properly. Things like elitism, nepotism, etc. have no place in ministry! And finally, I wouldn't say the sound guy is the most important guy in the band, but he DOES know the location of the "SUCK" button on the board. LOL ;-)

  • Shack4Tom
    replied
    Bassguitarist it could be the Lord wants to set up camp in the middle of worship starting with you. Lets pray for the others.
    In the name of Jesus I lift up this situation to you, we seek to worship you through music and your light shine brighter. Amen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Worship Survival Guy
    replied
    Bassguitarist , God bless you! Please know that you are not crazy, not alone, and that in His sovereignty God is allowing us to do this to ourselves. Steffie's wisdom above is good .
    The CWP's job may be on the line each week, with his/her market-value measured against a Hillsongs Video. (If flagship services aren't world-class, attendance may fall, budgets may not be met and low Yelp ratings may follow.) Other than with prayer, a Jesus-loving musician probably can't change that.
    Standing Stone Ministry is trying to walk Psalmists through these crazy conditions; consider me a safe place to vent and pray, my friend.
    Keep on praising! Blessings, Phil
    Worship Survival Guy at Standing Stone Ministry

    Leave a comment:


  • Steffie
    replied
    Hi Bassguitarist,

    I often feel like the lone voice in my worship ministry. In reality, there are others who share my views and, as I have discovered who they are, I have found it helpful to connect with them regularly. It helps to keep me sane and gives me perspective. If there is anyone at church who understands how you feel, I encourage you to connect with them and give them permission to speak honestly into your life. They can call you out on blind spots (I have needed this from time to time!).

    Elitism can be a real problem and I have seen it stem from other issues, such as unrepentant sin. It is something I have attempted to address in churches myself over the years, but in my experience, it is a very difficult thing to shift. In the end, we have these options:

    - keep speaking up about the issues with the people concerned (rather than with everyone else, which can promote gossip);
    - ignore it and keep on serving; or
    - go elsewhere.

    Unfortunately we can be our own worst enemy in these situations, hoping that something will change and burning ourselves out when change does not come. I encourage you to look after yourself - it is up to you whether this ultimately entails going elsewhere. In the end, you need to keep your heart healthy and worshipful, which might be hard if you feel resentment building toward CWP.

    Good on you for speaking up.

    Steffie.

    Leave a comment:


  • i_am_gideon
    replied
    Hey man, I can feel you on the feeling alone with an issue deal. As for your CWP and elitism I've got a couple of questions. Full disclosure I am reading this from same side of the door as your CWP
    Have you tried talking to your CWP directly about your concerns?
    Have you personally been passed over to play at the main campus?
    Do that bands at your main campus stink?
    Is there a clear process at your church that folks can follow if they'd like to do music?
    Does your church broadcast the service at the main location in any way?
    Are the "High Standards" communicated clearly?
    Who do you believe should be picking band member's if not the CWP?

    Also I read your intro post, very true words there. When you're the sound guy you're the most important person in the band.

    Leave a comment:

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