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When Leadership Isn't Qualified to Lead

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  • When Leadership Isn't Qualified to Lead

    Hello everyone.

    First let me say I am new here and am so glad I found this forum to discuss issues with other Christians. I know it's only my first post but I need to share an issue I am dealing with at my church that maybe some of you can offer suggestions for me.

    I have been an active musician in worship leadership for 13 years now. I have been playing guitar for over 20 years. In my current church I am part of a contemporary worship team that our church allotted a separate, second service for us to play. The first service is very traditional. Our team began over 3 years ago. Our worship leader (he was also the youth pastor) left our church in late Octobe to take a senior pastor position in another church. Our senior pastor immediately hired another young (21) college student to take over the very next week.

    The new guy is nice but the problem is he can't sing at all and can't play guitar very well and he plays out of tune too. He plays his guitar very rigidly and everything he plays sounds exactly the same. I have been dealing with this for eight weeks now and feel it's time for me to resign as lead guitarist.

    Let me clarify, I do not believe every member in a worship team needs to be the best musician in the world to be able to play in a worship setting but I do believe you have to be AT LEAST able to play well with others. This is not happening. I believe he is also tone deaf. He told me he thinks his voice sounds good and he can't hear what people mean when they he shouldn't sing. That tells me he's tone deaf as well as when I have to politely suggest we tune up (because he can't hear his guitar out of tune).

    Ok, what would you do?

  • #2
    First off, don't quit just yet. I understand your frustration, but one of the things I learned over the years is a little patience and toughness goes a long way.

    This is an opportunity to step up and show some leadership. Be lovingly honest with him- offer to help him with his guitar tone and style, etc., which I would think you already are doing.

    Pastors can be flighty sometimes- do you know why he was hired? Does he have a "Creative Arts" degree, is he an intern somewhere, what's the whole situation? I have seen pastors blindly put people in charge as a worship leader without an audition just because they have a degree. Sometimes they think they can hire a young guy without paying them much without realizing 'you get what you pay for'. So try to see where this kid's coming from and what the situation is.

    Is the pastor approachable? Have you and others tried to sit down with the pastor and express your concerns? Some take it as complaining or jealousy, but try to bring it to his attention.

    From a pragmatic sense, if he's that bad, he'll stick out like a sore thumb and enough other people will notice that it will have to be addressed- but it would be nice to resolve it sooner to head off the embarrassment and drama.

    But, just keep pressing on and do what you do. Do what you can to help, try to guide the young man as best you can.
    If we want to go places we haven't been, we will have to do things we haven't done.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mike on Bass View Post
      First off, don't quit just yet. I understand your frustration, but one of the things I learned over the years is a little patience and toughness goes a long way.

      This is an opportunity to step up and show some leadership. Be lovingly honest with him- offer to help him with his guitar tone and style, etc., which I would think you already are doing.

      Pastors can be flighty sometimes- do you know why he was hired? Does he have a "Creative Arts" degree, is he an intern somewhere, what's the whole situation? I have seen pastors blindly put people in charge as a worship leader without an audition just because they have a degree. Sometimes they think they can hire a young guy without paying them much without realizing 'you get what you pay for'. So try to see where this kid's coming from and what the situation is.

      Is the pastor approachable? Have you and others tried to sit down with the pastor and express your concerns? Some take it as complaining or jealousy, but try to bring it to his attention.

      From a pragmatic sense, if he's that bad, he'll stick out like a sore thumb and enough other people will notice that it will have to be addressed- but it would be nice to resolve it sooner to head off the embarrassment and drama.

      But, just keep pressing on and do what you do. Do what you can to help, try to guide the young man as best you can.
      In eight weeks, attendance in our service is dropping every week. Just a few more leave every week. At one point in the past with the former leader we were way over the attendance of the first traditional service. That is changing. Not that that is a measure of anything other than attendance is dropping maybe because the music quality has dropped sharply. And it has. The songs have been shaky, timing off, guitars out of tune, singing off key, we even lost our best keyboardist a few weeks ago over this. The pastor hired him in a knee jerk reaction to fill the youth position as quickly as possible and happened to put this same kid in charge of the worship team. He has never lead music anywhere else. He is not going to school for music, he's going for youth ministry. The pastor now joins us weekly as a singer, (the new leader told me he doesn't like this), and having our pastor sing with us is like listening to Lawrence Welk trying to sing Motley Crue. Ain't happening at all. So we've got an inexperienced, beginner level musician leading us with the pastor babysitting/covering for him at rehearsal and during the service. The pastor is getting flack for hiring this guy but he refuses to change his position. There is a contemporary church nearer to me that is looking for a lead guitar player and have asked me to start rehearsing with them in January. I don't want to make a drastic decision, but I will start rehearsing with them. The good thing is they have church at night not Sunday morning so it wouldn't interrupt if I stay also at my current church unless practice times are the same and I think they might be.

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you only assuming that people are leaving because the music has changed? My thought is that unless you interviewed these people, you do not know this. Secondly, if the music is all that was holding them there then they were not receiving much in the Word but only looking for a concert anyway. As musicians, we have to learn what place we hold in the big picture. We are not 'the big show'. We are there to prepare peoples hearts for the Word. That is it. I know that this is a difficult thing to hear. Music is a powerful tool, but it is not the meat of the reason why people should be coming to that service.

        Finally, we should look at challenges head on. If we all funnel ourselves into churches where people all think exactly like us and there are only the shiny, pretty people allowed to play or worship on stage, then we miss an opportunity to minister to all people. We exclude people that we could mentor if we could just put our own ego aside and work through the issues with a Christ like selflessness. I encourage you to be the servant leader that God is calling you to be. Learn to communicate effectively within the structure of your current situation instead of seaking another. You will find yourself blessed.

        In His Service,

        Don

        Comment


        • #5
          Don_Z has it exactly right! We are not the main show. This is your time to be patient and do things gently as Christ would (probably has) done with you. If you go to the new church you are doing your old church a disservice this isn't "bar-hopping" this is the body of Christ. If after 8 months or a year and much prayer and Godly council you still feel this way then move, but not after 8 weeks.

          Chris Draper
          Creative Director SING Music Publishing
          SINGmusicpublishing.com
          Songwriters4god.blogspot.com
          Goproclaimmedia.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Preparing the congregation is NOT the only reason we do worship. Worshiping the Lord should be our first priority on a Sunday morning. The book of Psalms is an enormous book, that's dedicated to worshipping an almighty KING. So, worship is not a "tool". It is our reason for getting together as a congregation in the first place. After all, does God need to hear the sermon? No, he needs to hear our praise! Yes, being fed is important. I just don't think we should negate the importance of music in a gathering. And, if people have begun leaving right around the same time that the leadership change took place then obviously it would be a good assumption that the decline in music quality would be the reason. My advice would be to continue to explore this other option. 8 months is way too long to wait for a change. If the music quality is bad enough that the Pastor is babysitting, and digging in his heels to support his decision, then you need to prayerfully consider other options. 8 months is long enough to get burnt out and frustrated.

            Comment


            • #7
              Ummmm....have to disagree here....

              I say this tongue-in-cheek but one day what preachers do will pass away - what worship leaders do will continue for eternity!

              Seriously though, I too must redirect the idea that our time spent in corporate worship as a body is a "warm-up" type of act for the speaker or is in some way less as in "not the meat" of why we come. Within the context of what's been argued thus far, this doesn't hold any kind of water theologically and is actually opposed to what scripture would have to say about our corporate worship.

              I would add that it is vital to anyone who knows about church growth that though people shouldn't come for this or that reason, they in fact are going to respond according to preferences irrespective of whether we like it or not or shoulds or shouldn'ts. Being sensitive to their needs and desires (if you want a chance to disciple them toward something greater) is appropriate when you can do so without compromising principles (easily done in the OP's scenario).

              Not the best illustration in the world but you could reckon it to air conditioning and in-door plumbing: eliminate these from your facility and see how well your church grows (or how fast it dies). You'd be right in saying people shouldn't be coming based on air temp and convenience and should only be coming for their hunger for the Lord but you'd be sitting on a pew all by yourself and still be kinda wrong. So bringing attention to the standard of worship and leading is a right thing to do. After all, you wouldn't put someone in front of a congregation to preach who didn't show a calling to be there (remember, God equips those He calls). And if you should put them up there and people start to leave because he or she is an inept speaker, will you blame the people and say they were coming for the wrong reasons? I should hope not!

              Going on, according to the vision and mission of the particular body***, being inclusive of all people regardless of ability and talent is an appropriate stance but there is a helpful way and there is a harmful way to do that. However, here we are discussing putting someone in charge who seems to lack the skills, which is different that just being inclusive and just doesn't make sense at all unless the pastor has some other reason or motivation.

              Though I know where these responses are coming from, the OP is not at all describing a healthy, beneficial circumstance or posting from a place that lacks humility and the appropriate perspective. I could not advise you to just hang in there. Like Mike said, don't respond hastily but I think some sort of action is needed. Speak to the pastor about it and see if he can shed some light on why he's put this guy in charge. Ask him if he sees that there is a need and if he does work with him to address it in some beneficial way. He may be at wits end about it for some reason and you could lift a great burden for him perhaps. If he doesn't see the need then you've got some long-range decisions to make. You don't sound to me like you're a church-hopper so don't be condemned if you need to go somewhere else when you deem the time is appropriate. You need to find somewhere where you can grow spiritually. If that isn't happening here, who am I to hold you back from growth and what God has for you (even though that works against the unscriptural, man-made notions of "hold-the-fort/anti-church hop" theology).

              Keep us informed. I'd like to read the end of the story.


              ****Some churches vision and mission may mean that they're standards require paid professionals and not the average amateur player. There is nothing ungodly or sinful about this, it just means it isn't the right community for a person seeking to gain more experience and they may be better suited worshiping somewhere else.
              Last edited by Moosicman; 12-29-2012, 12:23 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Moosicman View Post
                I say this tongue-in-cheek but one day what preachers do will pass away - what worship leaders do will continue for eternity!

                Seriously though, I too must redirect the idea that our time spent in corporate worship as a body is a "warm-up" type of act for the speaker or is in some way less as in "not the meat" of why we come. Within the context of what's been argued thus far, this doesn't hold any kind of water theologically and is actually opposed to what scripture would have to say about our corporate worship.

                I would add that it is vital to anyone who knows about church growth that though people shouldn't come for this or that reason, they in fact are going to respond according to preferences irrespective of whether we like it or not or shoulds or shouldn'ts. Being sensitive to their needs and desires (if you want a chance to disciple them toward something greater) is appropriate when you can do so without compromising principles (easily done in the OP's scenario).

                Not the best illustration in the world but you could reckon it to air conditioning and in-door plumbing: eliminate these from your facility and see how well your church grows (or how fast it dies). You'd be right in saying people shouldn't be coming based on air temp and convenience and should only be coming for their hunger for the Lord but you'd be sitting on a pew all by yourself and still be kinda wrong. So bringing attention to the standard of worship and leading is a right thing to do. After all, you wouldn't put someone in front of a congregation to preach who didn't show a calling to be there (remember, God equips those He calls). And if you should put them up there and people start to leave because he or she is an inept speaker, will you blame the people and say they were coming for the wrong reasons? I should hope not!

                Going on, according to the vision and mission of the particular body***, being inclusive of all people regardless of ability and talent is an appropriate stance but there is a helpful way and there is a harmful way to do that. However, here we are discussing putting someone in charge who seems to lack the skills, which is different that just being inclusive and just doesn't make sense at all unless the pastor has some other reason or motivation.

                Though I know where these responses are coming from, the OP is not at all describing a healthy, beneficial circumstance or posting from a place that lacks humility and the appropriate perspective. I could not advise you to just hang in there. Like Mike said, don't respond hastily but I think some sort of action is needed. Speak to the pastor about it and see if he can shed some light on why he's put this guy in charge. Ask him if he sees that there is a need and if he does work with him to address it in some beneficial way. He may be at wits end about it for some reason and you could lift a great burden for him perhaps. If he doesn't see the need then you've got some long-range decisions to make. You don't sound to me like you're a church-hopper so don't be condemned if you need to go somewhere else when you deem the time is appropriate. You need to find somewhere where you can grow spiritually. If that isn't happening here, who am I to hold you back from growth and what God has for you (even though that works against the unscriptural, man-made notions of "hold-the-fort/anti-church hop" theology).

                Keep us informed. I'd like to read the end of the story.


                ****Some churches vision and mission may mean that they're standards require paid professionals and not the average amateur player. There is nothing ungodly or sinful about this, it just means it isn't the right community for a person seeking to gain more experience and they may be better suited worshiping somewhere else.
                Thank you for this reply. I am trying to wade through this thoughtfully, reasonably and prayerfully. I agree and many in our church that I've talked (congregational members and board members)just don't understand why the pastor wants this guy leading worship. Here is what I know to be true so far: the former worship leader was also the youth leader/pastor. He did a phenomenal job of leading and growing the youth groups. It was also his vision to start a second, contemporary worship service. Over a period of over 2 years the new contemporary service grew like wildfire in terms of attendance and our team was invited to play for several "outside" events such as an Ignite youth conference, a Relay for Life benefit, leading evening worships in OTHER (denominations) churches as well as our city's 4th of July festival. All playing worship music. An outstanding testament of God's work and outreach. I don't play for pay and I don't ask to be paid. I believe I am extremely blessed to have been involved in some amazing things God had blessed our music ministry with. Back to what I know:

                The former leader gave the church about 30 days notice he was leaving and he told the band before he told the congregation. We as the band expected to have to share leadership responsibilities until a suitable replacement was found. We figured it would be some time before that happened. However, the last service he was with us the senior pastor had this new guy (and his wife) show up and play and sing with us. We were never informed about anything. We also expected this at the least was going to be the start of at least a few new faces coming through to be "auditioned" and interviewed. No problem. However, by the following week we were stunned to hear he was hired. That was it. Four days after the last service with our former leader and this new guy was here and the "leader". We have many capable people in our church who could have lead worship for a time until a suitable replacement was found. And surprisingly, no one in the church was even asked if any of us could or would. The senior pastor never even asked the team's opinions on anything. So now we have a situation. A serious one. The senior pastor has since asked me what I thought and I told him. You know what his answer was? "Just give it time".

                well I said eight weeks but it's more like nine or ten weeks things are not better. Not musically, not organizationally, nor our we spending appropriate time practicing. Yeah sure we still have the usual Thursday night practice but the first thing the new leader has done is taken away our Sunday morning practice and instead just wants us to "warm up" a few minutes before the service. I have already mentioned to the new pastor (last week) I was considering stepping down and he gave me the usual play on the ego/guilt trip: "Losing you would devastate the worship team". I told him losing the former leader and now our keyboardist was/is devastating too but that doesn't seem to matter does it? He had no answer, just went back to losing me would devastate the team. I won't be held hostage by that. But I am not church surfer, but I will always try to listen to God's call wherever it may lead. I know that is not always a popular decision, but our former leader has done it and it was devastating to the church but he followed the call didn't he?

                The pastor may realize we have a problem musically. We are not getting tighter an d improving our chemistry or anything. it is just not there. That said, he is up for re election (that's how the Wesleyan church works) at end of January and if he is not re elected, the new guy gets fired too. This senior pastor who has had very little to do with me over the years all of sudden wants to get together and "sharpen iron" as he puts it and wants to do it soon. He is digging in his heels. I think maybe because if he admits any mistakes it could cost him his job in four weeks time. It may be a case of his interests above the best interests of the church.
                Last edited by MeTheGuy; 12-29-2012, 03:39 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cdkd621 View Post
                  Don_Z has it exactly right! We are not the main show. This is your time to be patient and do things gently as Christ would (probably has) done with you. If you go to the new church you are doing your old church a disservice this isn't "bar-hopping" this is the body of Christ. If after 8 months or a year and much prayer and Godly council you still feel this way then move, but not after 8 weeks.

                  Chris Draper
                  Creative Director SING Music Publishing
                  SINGmusicpublishing.com
                  Songwriters4god.blogspot.com
                  Goproclaimmedia.com
                  I appreciate and totally get what you're saying but....when we who SERVE in the church decide to make a change of venue we tend to get slammed for even the consideration of doing so. "Bar hopping, church surfing, not enough patience, all about me, not prayerful enough, wrong spiritual condition, doing a church a disservice" yeah I hear all that. Those are the kind of things that really play on people's guilt and ego and also contribute to burning people out by tricking them into staying where they ought not stay. Why is it when pastor's leave for other churches we all say how wonderful it is they are lead by God and it's such a wonderful opportunity for them but when congregational members leave we point the finger at them as if it's THEIR fault and/or THEIR the problem?
                  Last edited by MeTheGuy; 12-29-2012, 05:19 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Don_Z View Post
                    Are you only assuming that people are leaving because the music has changed? My thought is that unless you interviewed these people, you do not know this. Secondly, if the music is all that was holding them there then they were not receiving much in the Word but only looking for a concert anyway. As musicians, we have to learn what place we hold in the big picture. We are not 'the big show'. We are there to prepare peoples hearts for the Word. That is it. I know that this is a difficult thing to hear. Music is a powerful tool, but it is not the meat of the reason why people should be coming to that service.

                    Finally, we should look at challenges head on. If we all funnel ourselves into churches where people all think exactly like us and there are only the shiny, pretty people allowed to play or worship on stage, then we miss an opportunity to minister to all people. We exclude people that we could mentor if we could just put our own ego aside and work through the issues with a Christ like selflessness. I encourage you to be the servant leader that God is calling you to be. Learn to communicate effectively within the structure of your current situation instead of seaking another. You will find yourself blessed.

                    In His Service,

                    Don
                    I said music may be the reason the people are leaving. It is very coincidental that people are leaving right after the change. I may not have talked to everyone who has left but I have some who are still friends. The fact remains people are leaving now when we were growing before. But I have to respectfully disagree somewhat on what place we hold as musicians. We as musicians play music, for worship in song. Not to usher anyone into the presence of God or prepare anyone for anything, just to provide one aspect of worship, through song. Music/song is only one form of worship (it's important) that we employ in our lives. At church it's expected, it's a tradition we keep. Just like we have an order of service, it's just routine. Not to blast anyone, but church is a routine exercise we go through every week. It shouldn't necessarily be that way and i don't mean to be so sarcastic but do you see any church that is spontaneously receiving a minute by minute direct revelation overtaking people's actions? We are not puppets on strings. Organized church is man's routine to come together and worship together and receive edification through the Word and being with other's of like mind. It's not bad I'm just saying. we are the house of God, the Spirit indwells us, not a building. We don't prepare anyone's hearts for God to enter, the Spirit convicts, we don't have any control over that. We are not spiritual mediators like some psychic. We simply provide worship in song and we need to do it well so it does not become a distraction. You know as well as I do there are people who specifically "skip" song services all over the country because it's too loud, or not their style of music, or they don't like it and there is nothing wrong with it either. To think there is would be judgmental of us to condemn for some reason unknown to us. it's between God and them.

                    Pardon my directness but I think your position relies heavily on the fairy tale, mystical magic ideas so commonly misapplied to our very true and real, very Holy God. You are claiming to know God's intentions for me, to be the servant leader that God is calling me to be. How do you know this? You do not know this. But maybe God IS calling me to be a servant leader at ANOTHER church?
                    Last edited by MeTheGuy; 12-29-2012, 06:05 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cdkd621 View Post
                      Don_Z has it exactly right! We are not the main show. This is your time to be patient and do things gently as Christ would (probably has) done with you. If you go to the new church you are doing your old church a disservice this isn't "bar-hopping" this is the body of Christ. If after 8 months or a year and much prayer and Godly council you still feel this way then move, but not after 8 weeks.


                      Chris Draper
                      Creative Director SING Music Publishing
                      SINGmusicpublishing.com
                      Songwriters4god.blogspot.com
                      Goproclaimmedia.com
                      I agree totally, we are not the main show but we do need to be as prepared as we can as to not be a distraction to the very thing we are there to do, provide music for worship through song. This is about putting someone in charge who seem to lack the skills at doing what he is supposed be there for. Patience is one thing for sure, but if you're working in the real world and you aren't capable of doing your job, you get fired. I know that sounds blunt, but the point is, why is giving our best for God so looked down upon? Why is it so hard to do? You say give it eight months or a year, BUT, for instance, the former leader who left spent exactly three months (12 weeks) pondering his decision to move on to another church. He didn't spend a year doing it. Sometimes you just know what you gotta do. It doesn't work differently for pastors than it does for the average Joe. In life you can't always ponder a job opportunity for a year, sometimes you have a week or month tops to decide. If God's in it, He's in it and will make it known. If that's a year, so be it. If it's 2 days, there you go. Pastors move around like ants crawling over the organized religion ant hill. But church members? GASP, God forbid you ever even think about leaving!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Metheguy,

                        I just wanted to let you know that my earlier reply was rather blunt and to the point. I didn't want to say too much because I was a little dissapointed in a few of the initial responses you had received. Everyone, please understand, I'm not intending to be confrontational. Metheguy, It's hard for me to believe but I've been a musician for almost 20 yrs., primarily on worship teams, and have spent the last 15 yrs as a leader of some sort. I agree and support all that you've posted, including your responses to the other posters. BTW, I was a Wesleyan for 15 yrs. I too have recently departed from a not so healthy situation, where I was told to swallow my pride and "wait it out" blah blah blah (yes I know, there I go being blunt again. lol). I did the waiting thing for 2 1/2 yrs. It was hurtful, and extremely discouraging as a musician and worship leader. Don't allow others to bully you into doing what's best for THEM. You are allowed to do what makes you happy. Pursue your dreams! I'm sure many popular Christian artists and worship leaders moved from small opportunities to big opportunities and disappointed many along the way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SonofJesse View Post
                          Metheguy,

                          I just wanted to let you know that my earlier reply was rather blunt and to the point. I didn't want to say too much because I was a little dissapointed in a few of the initial responses you had received. Everyone, please understand, I'm not intending to be confrontational. Metheguy, It's hard for me to believe but I've been a musician for almost 20 yrs., primarily on worship teams, and have spent the last 15 yrs as a leader of some sort. I agree and support all that you've posted, including your responses to the other posters. BTW, I was a Wesleyan for 15 yrs. I too have recently departed from a not so healthy situation, where I was told to swallow my pride and "wait it out" blah blah blah (yes I know, there I go being blunt again. lol). I did the waiting thing for 2 1/2 yrs. It was hurtful, and extremely discouraging as a musician and worship leader. Don't allow others to bully you into doing what's best for THEM. You are allowed to do what makes you happy. Pursue your dreams! I'm sure many popular Christian artists and worship leaders moved from small opportunities to big opportunities and disappointed many along the way.
                          I really appreciate your reply. Sometimes blunt and to the point is what we need in church today. I agree, I am not trying to confrontational with anyone either. We have differing opinions on some matters and that's ok. I think we get caught up in repeating the things we think we are supposed to say versus saying what really needs to be heard. So much hurt and strife could be avoided if we could just see the issues and deal with them honestly instead of trying to be some kind of spiritual authority over each other. And I thank you for your genuine honesty and concern.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This isn't written as a response to the OP's initial question, but as a comment to the latest posts.

                            We have had a wide divergence of opinions stated here. This divergence is what makes the TWC website such a valuable place for people in musical worship.

                            I only ask, as this conversation continues, that everyone be respectful to those with whom you disagree. Be careful to make your comments about issues, rather than about people.

                            God can be glorified in our wading through this difficult issue, so let us be careful in how we say what we say. I do not mean to imply that anyone has said anything they shouldn't have said; let's keep it that way.

                            Tom
                            TWC Moderator

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wannabe a Worshiper View Post
                              This isn't written as a response to the OP's initial question, but as a comment to the latest posts.

                              We have had a wide divergence of opinions stated here. This divergence is what makes the TWC website such a valuable place for people in musical worship.

                              I only ask, as this conversation continues, that everyone be respectful to those with whom you disagree. Be careful to make your comments about issues, rather than about people.

                              God can be glorified in our wading through this difficult issue, so let us be careful in how we say what we say. I do not mean to imply that anyone has said anything they shouldn't have said; let's keep it that way.

                              Tom
                              TWC Moderator
                              Thanks Tom

                              I do sincerely appreciate everyone's opinion. I think we often get a wide variety of differing opinions simply because not everyone goes through the exact same things. Often, I cannot place myself into another's situation and try as I might, give pertinent advice because I am not seeing/living it in their own perspective. Talk is cheap because it costs nothing. There is however value when God is speaking and I personally believe we can hear Him through others. Not everyone gets to personally witness their own burning bush. But I do pray to do the right thing. That's all I wish to do. I do apologize if any of my comments did appear confrontational or insulting, that was not intended. I am glad we can discuss a variety of thoughts and opinions without getting upset because it may or may not agree with our own personal doctrines. Which can be very hard to do.

                              Comment

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