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4th of July Weekend

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  • #16
    hanging my hat on that one.
    Fred McKinnon, Pianist/Composer/Worship Leader
    blog: www.fredmckinnon.com

    Please check out my piano/instrumental music at:
    www.soundcloud.com/FredMcKinnonMusic
    www.youtube.com/c/FredMcKinnonMusic

    Comment


    • #17
      Yeah, me too.

      Except I'll leave you with this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8_rvR7ykoI
      Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

      Comment


      • #18
        STOP IT, STOP IT . .. hahaha
        Fred McKinnon, Pianist/Composer/Worship Leader
        blog: www.fredmckinnon.com

        Please check out my piano/instrumental music at:
        www.soundcloud.com/FredMcKinnonMusic
        www.youtube.com/c/FredMcKinnonMusic

        Comment


        • #19
          Russ...

          :-)

          so this is what you guys are doing this weekend?

          Comment


          • #20
            Exactly, except where the guy talks for 18 minutes, I'm rapping it.
            Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

            Comment


            • #21
              Last week there was a big thing on here about whether we should include something by/about Michael Jackson in our worship services. Some were considering a MJ song, others a moonwalk or some other "tribute" to him.
              Now if that can be condoned in a "worship" service by some, then surely we can accept some songs thanking God for giving us our nation, for preserving and blessing it.
              Where do we get that all worship has to be vertical? Cannot a song that tells about God and His works also be worship? Can we not worship by thanking Him for something non-spiritual? We thank Him for the air we breathe, for the majesty of the mountains, for the cool waters; why does it become unacceptable to thank Him for His mercies to us through our freedom?

              At my church, which is more traditional than contemporary, we will have the Pledge of Allegiance and sing the National Anthem at the beginning of the service, before we get into the "worship." We will sing "God of Our Fathers" and a medley with the refrain of "America the Beautiful," 2 verses of "My Country, 'tis of Thee" and v 3 of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."
              After that, it will be "God Bless America", sung as a prayer.

              And I believe God will be glorified in our music.

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              • #22
                just wrote a long comment...then deleted it...feel much better now...

                Nate
                Practical Worship

                Please Pray For My Wife

                Comment


                • #23
                  Wannabe makes some good points...before I too, "hang my hat" on this topic I'll say this:
                  We're doing "God Bless America". The rest of the set is typical worship.

                  Smitty
                  Love ONE woman...MANY guitars!

                  www.davidsproblem.wordpress.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Good thoughts, Wannabe!

                    Something we really teach here, and that I will teach everywhere I go is that worship on Sundays IS NOT limited to the 20 minutes of music that we in churches call worship.

                    The diaper changer in the nursery is worshiping. The greeters at the front door are worshiping. The speaker is worshiping. Everyone who has a "job" on Sunday mornings is worshiping through service. Actual service, not a gathering that we call "a service."

                    The worship team is no different. Of course our "worship" is (or should be) a whole lot easier to peg as worship VISUALLY, but IMHO, the real offering of worship comes in the serving of our congregation. Teaching them by example, sharing with them our musical gifts, basically developing and creating a "springboard" for them to express their worship collectively from. Every note we play and sing is an offering of serving - an act that is horizontal in focus (while at the same time potentially being a sweet offering of direct vertical worship to God).

                    It's what I like to call (and have seen others call) horizontal worship. Vertical worship is easy. We basically just respond to God by singing, praying, studying, etc. It really tends to be a response to who God is and to what He's done for us.

                    Horizontal worship is a little bit more complicated. It's the offering of worship that we present to God by actually LIVING out the constitution of the Kingdom (Matthew 5-7). It includes other people. Horizontal worship is a response to who God is in and through US. Treating others as we would want to be treated. Letting the last be first. Serving the "least of these." What's ironic (almost) about this type of worship is that it's really hard to pin down because of the underground nature of it. Which makes it tough when we teach that our worship bands should be more about horizontal worship than vertical worship (at least on Sundays)...because worship bands are so "in front of people."

                    Jesus talks about it in the Sermon on the Mount for 2-3 chapters after the Beatitudes. It's what I like to also call "Stealth Worship." This is the sacrifice of worship, the offering, that happens when no one is looking. It's a behind the scenes kind of worship. We really engage in horizontal worship when we're serving others.

                    I'm sure you guys are all probably saying, what in the world does this have to do with the topic. Honestly, I think it has everything to do with the topic. When we sing whatever we sing on Sundays, be it the latest Tomlin tune, or an acient Hymn; be it an original inhouse tune, or a crowd favorite from Integrity...the actual song is secondary to the PURPOSE or USE of the song.

                    Here's what I mean: I can get up and sing How Great Is Our God (which is a simple, yet great song that can be used for worship)...but I get up there and sing it dripping with "look at me" arrogance and schmooziness, the "worshipfulness" of that song drops off the charts. Why? Because I present it in such a way that does NOT encourage others to worship.

                    Same can be said for ANY other song in the world. I am not going to suggest that we can take a 2 Live Crew song and use it directly as a worship song...BUT I can listen to that song, be prompted by the Hly Spirit to think of the millions of kids who have been influenced by this song to think that women are objects and that premarital sex is ok; I can be led by the Holy Spirit to intercede on their behalf. I can pray for the people who penned and recorded it. Prayer for others is an act of worship.

                    Ok, ok. I know that is probably THE MOST extreme example of using a secular song for a higher purpose, and I probably wouldn't ever do that, but the point is...we have the freedom to be redemptive. Our God is a redeeming God. Christ came to redeem us. And I truly believe that the Holy Spirit is still in the redeeming business in and through His Church today.

                    So, if the PURPOSE is correct and the FOCUS is in the right place, I don't see anything wrong with using a song such as God Bless America, to teach people that it is indeed ok to pray for the PEOPLE of America. It is ok to use a patriotic song within the framework of a "worship" gathering, because in the end, ultimately, it's not the 45 minutes set aside for music that is worship, it's not the 5 or 6 songs that we sing and play that is worship, it's not the space inside the 4 walls of the church building that makes everything we do inside holier...

                    Worship is our response to God.

                    I honestly don't enjoy patriotic tunes all that much. Once a year is a plenty. But I do notice this. Whenever I sing God Bless America, I am nudged by the Holy Spirit to continue to pray for the PEOPLE of America.

                    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Acts 1:8
                    Sure Jesus was specifically talking to his followers about the coming of the Holy Spirit and the outpouring at Pentecost, but the concept is one that I think is brimming with practical common sense.

                    We start where we are. America is where I am. More specifically Georgia. That's what comes to mind when I hear this song. I pray tha God would move on the hearts and minds of men right here in South Georgia. And that His love and grace would be embraced by Americans from sea to shining sea.

                    Cheesy? Maybe, but that's where I am. And a once a year reminder to pray for God's blessings on the people of my country is not anti-God. It's not overly nationalistic. And singing it in a gathering that we've elevated to "holier than thou" mega spiritual status doesn't take away the fact that the only reason that our gatherings are holy at all is because GOD is there, not because of what we do or who we are.

                    It's all about HIM.
                    Last edited by russhutto; 07-02-2009, 08:37 AM.
                    Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Okay, so I had just ONE MORE THOUGHT on this topic...and then I'll stop...promise.

                      The very REASON we can blog about our experiences as Worshippers and as Christians, is BECAUSE God blessed America. There is no place on the face of the earth as free as THIS place. That is a miracle, and God just so happens to be in the miracle business. What could possibly be wrong with celebrating that?

                      Okay...done now.

                      Smitty
                      Love ONE woman...MANY guitars!

                      www.davidsproblem.wordpress.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by russhutto View Post
                        Yeah, me too.

                        Except I'll leave you with this:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8_rvR7ykoI

                        I think i just died.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The only problem is that as worship leaders we think about these things as we put worship sets together. Of course, we think to ourselves, this is how this glorifies God. However, our audience or congregation may not have the maturity or understanding to turn something secular into something divine. So, then you end up having to explain everything. Now you may be very blessed to have a congregation that so has the concept of worship down that they do that automatically but I would guess that would be rare. Why choose something secular that requires intellectual hurdles when you can choose something that is much easier to access and understand for a wide variety of maturity levels?

                          We were taking a patriotic concert down to Camp Pendleton Marine Base to the recruits in boot camp. I got to the point where I had to tell the worship pastor that if we kept doing that, I would have to stay behind and pray for them because I just didn't get it. Most of these guys understood the value of "country" as evidence by them signing up. What they needed was Jesus either as their salvation or as an encouragement for the difficulties they were facing.

                          When our drummer essentially said the same thing to the WP, there was a change. We ended up taking a worship set instead and invited them to worship with us. There were still some special numbers but the emphasis was on facilitating thoughts about God rather than trying to tie God to country. We got the biggest response and the chaplains said they preferred the worship concert.

                          If you are going to use something secular it needs to be very clearly understood as to how it glorifies God.

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                          • #28
                            Definitely, which was my example was indeed an extreme example. I used it merely to make a point.

                            The bottom line (as you said) is that we as leaders LEAD in living out worship. That means in every aspect of our lives not just in the song sets we choose.

                            I feel like we focus TOO much on the song selection and not enough on the living out part...but hey...it's probably just reallty where God's got me right now.

                            I don't ever mean to be the antagonist in these conversations, merely a thought provoker.

                            Bottom line: we need to craft sets that point people to God, but we don't need to be so wrapped up in a set of rules and regulations on how people being pointed to God looks.

                            I'm at a season for sure in my life where I'm digging deeper into what worship really means (for me) and those that I influence as a worship leader, and personally, I look around what we call "church" and my heart is heavy because a lot of what we do and call worship isn't it at all.

                            Proof?

                            It's in the pudding.
                            Associate Director of Worship & Media at St. Simons Community Church .He is also the content curator and editor here at The Worship Community.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Here's what I wrote on my blog today:

                              My argument is, if there is a place for patriotism in your personal life, then there can be a place for patriotism in a corporate church worship gathering. It may not always be profitable, but it is possible.

                              Too often, we like to compartmentalize our lives, believing the lie that says that the worship that happens on Sunday mornings is more holy and important that the worship that happens during the rest of our week...the lie that says we must be more careful about the things we say and do in church than the things we say and do outside of church. But, if my entire life, every second of every day is purposed to be an act of worship to God, how can showing patriotism at a baseball game with thousands, in an elementary school with hundreds, and at my family cookout this Saturday with a few be more OK than showing patriotism in church?

                              For the record, I understand how blessed I am to live in a free country, I say "thank you" to those who have served in our military, I cheer loudly during the Olympics, I salute the flag and I hold my hand over my heart during the pledge. None of those things in and of themselves make me patriotic, but I do have a love for and devotion to my country, and I'm OK with expressing my patriotism at the appropriate times. Why can't we sing the songs and acknowledge the flag while still bringing glory and honor to God?

                              One more thought...I wonder how many of the same Christians who cause such a stink when God is removed from our schools and government are the same people who cause a stink when something patriotic is done in church? Is there a correlation there?

                              Nate
                              Practical Worship

                              Please Pray For My Wife

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