So Who Are We Worshipping?… The Forgotten Trinity
July 27, 2009
Picture the scene. It’s a Sunday morning, we’re in the local church of Anytown, and the worship leader has just finished a song; ‘Lord Jesus, we thank you for your presence in this place, we love you Jesus, we glorify your name…’ and softly the music builds and the vocals come in: ‘It’s all about you, Jesus…’
Later the pastor steps up and raises the energy levels: ‘We’re here because of Jesus! Let’s give him the glory! It’s time to commit ourselves again to him and his kingdom!’
Question. What would Jesus think about that not-entirely-untypical worship scenario?Â
Consider the famous Christ-hymn in Philippians 2:5-11. From verse 8 it says:
‘Jesus became obedient to death- even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord…’
But you can’t stop reading there.
‘…to the glory of God the Father’
Our worship of Jesus, our acknowledgment of him as King and Lord, our bowing down before his mighty Name, is to be done ‘to the glory of God the Father’. Does our corporate worship reflect that? Or has the Father been sidelined because Jesus (being fully human as well as fully God) is altogether more comprehensible and manageable? And what about the Spirit?
Robin Parry’s excellent book ‘Worshiping Trinity’ makes it clear – for our worship to be truly Christian, it needs to be Trinitarian. We worship the Father who is revealed by the Son, and made known to us by the Spirit. We worship the Son who has paid the way for us to access the Father. We worship the Spirit who inspires us and leads us into all truth regarding the Father and the Son. We worship the one God who is mysteriously three persons at the same time, unconcerned by the mathematics of 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, but instead drawn into the eternal relationship of perfect love that exists within the Godhead.
Once we begin to understand that the Trinity is a relationship to be experienced, not a mathematical puzzle to be solved, our worship is transformed. Back to Anytown, where the worship leader has just finished another song: ‘Father, we thank you for the love you showed in sending your Son to die for us. Thank you that you are present with us by your Spirit right now…. ‘
And what do our songs say? Matt Redman pointed out a few years ago in a songwriter’s workshop, that from the top 50 CCLI songs of the time, only one mentioned the Trinity – Chris Tomlin’s ‘How Great is our God’. What a tragedy! Our God IS Father, Son, and Spirit, so if we’re not worshiping that God, we’re not worshiping the Christian God! Granted, not every song has tick all three boxes, but there is a duty of responsibility on pastors, worship leaders, service planners, to make sure that over time there is a balance of material that leaves no-one in any doubt exactly who it is we are worshiping. Yes, it is Jesus. But it’s also the Father, and the Spirit, and the one indivisible God who exists in perfect love and draws us into the embrace of the Trinity. As Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17:
‘I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.’ Amen.
If you’d like to make your worship more Trinitarian, you might want to consider this song – you can listen and download the music for free here on www.RESOUNDworship.org:
We give glory and praise to the Father;
uncreated, immortal, invisible God.
His hands hold the whole of creation,
and his heart overflows with love.
We give glory and praise to our Savior;
Son of God, Son of Man, perfect payment for sin.
He rose from the grave, he ascended,
and one day he will come again.
You are so holy, holy, holy,
the awesome Trinity,
forever Father, Spirit, Son.
You are, you were and always will be
God from eternity,
forever three, forever one.
We give glory and praise to the Spirit
who inspires and equips us to follow the Son.
Our Helper, our Counsel, our Comfort,
guarantee of all that’s to come.
You are our God, you are our God.
You are our God, you are our God.
The only God, the Living God,
Almighty God, You are our God
(c) 2008 Matt Osgood/www.RESOUNDworship.org
Related posts:
- A Theology of Worship – Part Four
- Kingdom of Priests – Priesthood of Kings!
- Butterflies Walking?
- A Theology of Worship – Part Three
- Living From Glory
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In our worship times I try to put Jesus into the center as His cross is the center of our world history. His cross redeemed the world and reconciled the world with God the Father. His cross, his blood can restore the order of the universe after the purpose of God the Father.
In worship I want at first paint a picture of this Jesus, because the people that come into the service will only come before the Father to worship him through Christ's blood. All redemption, all deliverance, all healing, all restoration is in the blood. And people need to meet Jesus. And having experienced the power of this blood in my own heart and spirit how it made alive where everything was dead, this will be what I will shout out above all.
But sure, we can not stop there. When somebody comes through Christ before the throne of our Creator and Father, this will have to have reflection either. And that we do not walk by our own strength but that he sent His Spirit INTO us to walk in his ways, this already is more than enough to praise this Spirit.
I love the song "There is a redeemer" for this reason. It catches all. Brings Jesus into the centre but also catches the trinity.
But I also believe that this verse says that the Father IS glorified when Jesus Christ is confessed as Lord.
Well said Rahel. The song also speaks to me deeply.
In order to come to the Father you must accept the Son. You come into the presence of the Son by the Spirit. To accept the Spirit you must first accept that there is God.
Mike, Rahel, thanks for your comments - the more I've thought about the Trinity, the more I've become convinced that we simply cannot elevate one member of the Godhead above the others, whether deliberately or unintentionally (say by focussing on one Person to the exclusion of the others). So I basically agree with Rahel's comment, but with some caveats - you say 'in our worship times I try to put Jesus into the centre'... but why? Pretty much every description of heaven in the NT e.g. Matt 26:64, Mark 16:19, Acts 2:33, 7:55 etc etc has Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father - so why not make the Father central?
My point is simply that saying 'we should focus more on this or that member of the Trinity' is like saying that one of the legs on a three-legged stool is more important. They are all equal in divinity, majesty, power, eternity, and so on. I agree that the cross (and, I'd add, the resurrection) is at the centre of world history - but the cross was Jesus' obedient offering of himself to the Father, and the resurrection was the Father raising Jesus from the dead in the power of the Spirit (Ro 8:11). We simply can't separate the action of one member of the Trinity from the rest - everything any of them does is done in the context of the others, which is why we can confidently say that we believe in one God, Father, Son and Spirit.
It is the Spirit who fills us, to make us more like Christ, for the glory of the Father
It is the Father who created us, by the Spirit and through Christ
It is the Father who sends the Spirit of the Son into our hearts, and it is by that Spirit that we cry 'Abba Father' (Gal 4:6)
and so on and so on.
Our worship needs to present this glorious dance of the Godhead, this intertwining of mutual love and good purpose. It's a challenge certainly, but this is the big picture of who God is that we need to be painting in our songs, our words, our prayers.
I have felt the same way. In particular, I think the Spirit gets the short end of the stick quite often.
I mean how many times do we pray to the Spirit? How many times do we think about the Spirit when we consider God? I know many times the only credence given to the Spirit is "when it moved". Like somehow it was an amorphous blob that just sat there until "Oh, the Spirit is really moving now".
And often times we link it to our feelings. True, the Spirit can and does affect our feelings and emotions, but is it limited to that? There are times we are reminded of scripture at just the right time - the Spirit did that as the Bible promised.
And even in my own writing above, I gave no personal pronoun to the Spirit and instead made reference to "it" instead of "He" which I would normally use for God the Father, or Jesus. I am not sure if that is right, wrong, or neither, but I do know it removes a personal attribute from the Spirit.
Lou
Hi Lou, thanks for chipping in. The question of how to address the Spirit is one that has kept theologians occupied for many years! The point is that of course there are no (as far as I'm aware) Biblical examples of people directly addressing the Spirit in prayer or worship. There is plenty of Biblical evidence for the Spirit's personhood and divinity though - think of Jesus' baptism, or references to 'grieving the Spirit'. So it was the early(ish) church, who were now living in the age where the Spirit was poured out on all flesh, who formulated the historic creeds that say 'We believe in the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son, with the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified'.
I'm not sure, therefore, that it would be biblically consistent to sing an entire song going like:
'we praise you Spirit, God unseen, you are the divine eternal wind...'
or whatever, if there was no reference to the Father and the Son in there. However in the lyrics of the song in the original post, I tried to keep the Spirit in His appropriate context - one of his roles for example is to help us live more like the Son. Another is to help us worship the Father (Gal 4:6 again).
Another thought on the place of the Spirit in our worship - Rev 4 & 5 puzzled me for a long time, because they reveal a vision of heaven with the Father enthroned, and the Lamb at his side, but there's not really a reference to the Holy Spirit (unless that is what is symbolised by the 7 burning torches around the throne, which is debated by commentaters). But then I read it again recently, and noticed Rev 4:2
2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
Where is the Spirit? He is the one bringing John into a place of encounter with the Father and the Son. Which to me seems a perfect illustration of the Spirit's role in our worship - his role, his joy, his delight, is to bring people into an encounter with the Father and with Jesus. So I'd say yes we can worship and pray to the Spirit, but we do that always with his role in mind. He is divine, eternal, all-powerful, infinite etc and therefore worthy of praise, but he is also like the divine usher at a wedding - he longs for us to encounter the Father heart of God through the Son, so is always deflecting attention away from himself and to the other members of the Godhead.
Lou
well yes, kind of
Rev 22:17 - "the Spirit and the bride say 'Come'" - it is the Spirit's delight to unite the hearts of God's people with Christ.
Matt, has your songwriting group written any songs around those few places in the New Testament where the Father, Son, and Spirit are all mentioned in one place?
Examples:
Galatians 4:6 - "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!'"
Ephesians 1:13b-14 - "You were sealed in Him [Christ] with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His [God's] glory."
Verses like that might be good starting places for writing the kinds of songs you are talking about, do you think?
Shannon
The various music forms of Doxology have been stuck in my head today thinking about this thread.
Shannon, there's a few songs on the RESOUND web-site that are Trinitarian, on the home page you can search by Theme and then by 'Trinity', which brings up 7 songs. The most overtly Trinitarian apart from the one of mine above are both by Sam Hargreaves - one is based on Ephesians 1:3-14:
- it's a great way of drawing people into worship, and certainly reflects the sentiments of Gal 4:6 even though it's not explicitly based on that verse:
VERSE 1
In Christ we find out who we are and what we're living for,
in Christ we are adopted and our future is secure,
in Christ we have salvation, Jesus' blood has set us free.
CHORUS
We are in Christ, a new creation.
Christ is in us, the hope of glory.
VS 2
In Christ we all were chosen long before the world began,
in Christ we see the fulness of the Father's perfect plan:
in Christ uniting everything in heaven and on earth.
VS 3
In Christ we are one body under Jesus as the head,
in Christ we have the power that raised Jesus from the dead,
in Christ we have the Holy Spirit as our guarantee.
And one of the simplest songs on the site is another of Sam's, which is a 3-part round (representing the Godhead in melody!
PART 1
Jesus, lead us to the Father,
by your Spirit, help us draw near.
2
As we come with awe and gladness,
help us draw near.
3
Alleluia, alleluia,
help us draw near.
You can find those songs here and here. Hope that helps!
God bless
Matt
What is expressed in the first song is what I meant with my post of putting Christ into the centre.
I did not mean with it that one part of the trinitiy is more or less important.
But when You see this song....Christ is mentioned the most...it says again and again "In Christ" and this is my concern for our worship in the congregation that everybody sees, no matter where he stands....believer or unbeliever....that all for us is in Jesus Christ. We only can enter into the relationship with the Father through Christ. The Spirit can only live in us when we are Christ's.
In my personal worship there is a balance. I know about my relationship to the father and enjoy it and praising him for being my good father. I think my prayer life is mainly made by speaking to the Father....through Jesus Christ. I pray to the Holy Spirit and thank him for being the power of the risen Christ in my life and ask him to help me to overcome in him and not in my own strength.
When You use the scripture that God the Father set Jesus on his right side and why not put the Father into the centre.....the same scripture says that the Father gave him the name that is above every other name...
Hi Rahel, I do completely agree with you - as you say, we access the Father through Christ, by the Spirit, and we cannot elevate one member of the Trinity above another. You have clearly thought this through and are living in the reality that being a Christian means being in relationship with the whole Godhead - but my reason for writing the original blog post is that not every Christian has this same depth of knowledge, not every Christian realises that the Trinity is fundamental to who God is (rather than being some obscure doctrine that preachers try to avoid!), and most relevant to this discussion, our corporate worship and prayers do not always reflect the reality of the three-in-one God.
If, for example, all or nearly all the songs we sing when we gather together are directed solely to Jesus, are the congregation going to get the impression that Jesus is one member of the Godhead, who delights to bring us to the Father and pours his Spirit out on us? Say we only sing things like 'Jesus you rose from the grave', are people going to be reminded that it was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead in the power of the Spirit? Or if we sing 'Jesus you gave your life for me' are people going to be informed if they don't already know that Jesus submitted to the cross in obedience to the Father, to reconcile the world to him, and not simply to pay a penalty so we could go to heaven?
This isn't doctrinal hair-splitting, it's vitally important, like the fact that it was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead means not that Jesus took on death in a fight and won (as it is sometimes portrayed), but that the Father accepted Jesus' sacrifice as a perfect offering and therefore vindicated him by raising him from the dead, giving all of us the opportunity to be brought into this resurrection life when we are baptised into Christ.
And so on and so on... My intention with the original post was simply to try and get worship leaders and service leaders thinking about how much they portray the fullness of the Trinity in the words they use and the songs they sing - this something you've clearly got a handle on which is great, however I know there are many worship leaders around for whom this is an area of confusion or ignorance. I'm not in anyway claiming to be a theological expert or to have a grasp of what the Trinity is (!!!) but reading the book in the original post ('Worshipping Trinity' by Robin Parry) really challenged me and got me thinking along these lines, and I wanted to share some of those thoughts with others as I found that book hugely helpful and was pretty sure others would too.
God bless
Matt
Ah, okay.
I like thinking
I wasn't sure if maybe my first post gave a wrong impression and simply wanted to clear it up.
I got a wider view through a worship seminary that JD Walt did with us on the Frequency board.
One point he made was that we are supposed to draw a picture through our worship. That this is our ministry. I got reminded of it when I read Your post.
It is not just about us expressing our feelings in worship, but drawing a picture and in this case the picture of the Trinity. Take people into the world of this Trinity in our songs and prayers so that they can be changed and transformed in this place.
This really encourages me to think about this as I try to get back into the discipline of writing ... thanks a ton for the article, Matt, and welcome to the role as "contributors" for TheWorshipCommunity.Com
My 2 cents worth. I am quite certain that one member of the Trinity never gets jealous that another member is getting more attention. Is it something we need to make a big deal out of? As long as God (any member of the Trinity) is being glorified, God is being glorified.
For the record, before I saw this post, I had already planned the following song set for my traditional church for this Sunday:
Glorify Thy Name, all 3 verses-- Father, Son, Spirit
Great is Thy Faithfulness -- the Father
There's Something About That Name -- Jesus
Spirit of the Living God-- Spirit
Rahel - I like the analogy with painting a picture - sometimes art can 'explain' truth about God more deeply than an expository sermon. One phrase I heard that really helped me on this subject is 'the Trinity is a relationship to be experienced, not a mathematical problem to be solved'. The Father, Son and Spirit, united in perfect, everlasting love, long to draw us into their dance to experience their joy in each other.
Fred - thanks for the comment, it's great to be involved. Amen to the writing inspiration, I've just started work on a song which is a prayer for the filing of the Holy Spirit, the chorus starts: 'Help me live for the Father, help me live like the Son' - having been thinking about the Trinity over these last few days those lines kind of fell out, but I like the way that all three members of the Trinity are referenced in a song that's not really 'about' the Trinity at all.
Wannabe - I absolutely agree, there is no jealousy within the Godhead. However I do wonder whether there is jealousy on each others behalf? (Jealousy is probably too strong a word, maybe 'concern for the others glory' is a better way of putting it.) As in John 12:28 when Jesus prays 'Father, glorify your name' - it is I'm sure the Son's delight when the Father is praised. And it is the Father who has raised the Son to a position of exaltation and worship at his right hand. And it is the Spirit who draws us to worship the Father and the Son. So no jealousy there, in fact quite the opposite.
All this Trinity-talk might seem a bit abstract, but the main beneficiary is in fact ourselves, not God. It's simply about our tiny minds being opened to a bit more of the truth about God Himself. We understand so much more of God's actions and character when we have the Trinity in mind - instead of saying 'Jesus thank you for dying for me' we can say 'Jesus thank you that you followed the path of obedience to the Father all the way to cross, so that I may go free'. They're both true, but the second opens up our understanding of the cross a bit more.
Anyway, I love the setlist, it's exactly that kind of highlighting different members of the Trinity in an unforced way that we need in our worship services, to paint that big picture of God that Rahel mentioned.
God bless
Matt
This picture of three in one also remind me of another point of that seminary I was speaking of.
JD Walt said that true worship happens where the past (anamnesis) and the future (prolepsis) come into our presence in the cross.
Nice lyric with Trinitarian emphasis yet reflecting the willful subordination of one person to the other (Father sends Son sends Spirit). We will be using this at NorthWood.
I like what my systematic professor said, "They Holy Spirit is the shy member of the Trinity; He always points to Jesus."
Thanks for the comments on the lyric, I appreciate that. This discussion came back to mind this week as I've been listening to Matt Redman's latest album 'We shall not be shaken'. It's a great album full of really singable melodies, superb hooks, and many great lyrics that you can see congregations latching onto. Only thing is, it's almost entirely about Jesus. Now that's obviously not in itself a bad thing (!!) but if you didn't know better, you would listen to the album and at the end of it believe that Jesus created everything, is the (only) King on the throne, is our only Saviour, is the only faithful God... the penultimate track on the album has the lyric 'all that really matters is you, Jesus it's you'. There is no mention of the Father or the Spirit at all. A couple of the songs are directed to 'God' or 'you Lord', but it's never specified who is meant by the terms.
There's something about that that just makes me a bit uneasy - it seems a far cry from the way that say Paul in his letters manages to pour out praise to Jesus, but always in the context of the Father - just to pick a few random examples:
Eph 1:3
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Ro 16
25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
Gal 4:6
6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
Please don't read this as a criticism of Matt Redman, I have used many of his songs in the past and will I'm sure continue to do so, including songs from this new album, I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with what seems to me to be a lack of theological balance - and all the more so because there are many albums out there that have this almost exclusive focus on Jesus, which simply doesn't seem to reflect the balance that there is in the Bible. But maybe I'm just being over-sensitive... or maybe not? Let me know!
I've started playing around with some song ideas based on Gal. 4:6 as a result of this discussion. I'll let you know if develops...
Isn't this all just 'semantics' though?..... Jesus said, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father". He also said, I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by me. I think some of us make a mistake when we try to 'separate' the Trinity and then we get lost in thological difference that are not necessary. I might have limited understanding.....but I feel comfortable seeing Jesus as 'The Father'. I am still trying to know the Holy Spirit more......and what that means. Fact is....I do not have it all figured out yet, I am just a simple man. Thank You Father, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them to babes. I do not think that God, the Father, Jesus our Lord, or the Holy Spirit are 'out to trick us'.....that would be mean. Sometimes we 'know' so much that we become stupid. I am not required to figure God out. I will never be able to anyway. What I do know for sure though...is when I seek Him, He is there to be found. When I open His Holy Word, He reveals His Love for us, and all of His Glory and His 'mystery'......but as I said...I am too 'simple' to explain His mystery, I have no PHD's, and I am not an eloquent speaker. I am getting old and I often forget things, but that is OK. Because as long as I remember just to 'turn to Him'....I know I am safe.
Hi Robert, you're asking a very important question there - does all this Trinity talk really matter? Isn't it enough to just get on with it and worship Jesus?
getting hold of it. You can get it on Amazon for $10.
First I must point out that I don't have any PhD's either, in fact I have no formal theological training at all, so we're on common ground there!
But second (and obviously, because I've written quite a lot on this thread!) I do think this matters, I think in fact it's of central importance to our understanding of who God is, though I'm well aware that many people (possibly including yourself) would disagree with me on how important this is.
You mentioned the verse where Jesus says 'if you have seen me, you have seen the Father'. This is of course a crucial verse in understanding Jesus' divinity, but it's important to realise what he is saying. Jesus' point is that he is exactly like the Father in his nature and character, NOT that he and the Father are the same person. Where Jesus says in John 10:30 'I and the Father are one', he's making a similar point, that he and the Father are exactly alike in nature, and also in purpose. Again, he is not saying 'the Father is just another name for me'.
The idea that God is just one God who appears to us in three different ways (as opposed to being three distinct persons) is actually a heresy called modalism - it basically says that God appeared as the Father in the Old Testament, then appeared as Jesus, and now lives in our hearts as the Holy Spirit. The trouble is of course that this idea makes complete nonsense of loads of Biblical texts - just to pick a few random examples:
- Jesus taught his disciples to pray to the Father - why not to himself if he is the same person as the Father?
- More to the point, Jesus himself prayed (e.g. Matt 26:36, Luke 5:16, 9:18 etc) - this wasn't just an exercise in him talking to himself.
- On the cross Jesus said 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' This is a meaningless statement unless the Son and the Father are in fact distinct persons
- In John 14:16, Jesus said "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth." If Jesus is the same person as the Father and the Spirit, then he's basically saying 'I'm going to ask myself to send myself to you' ... which would be a sign of being psychologically unhinged, not of being the Son of God.
And so on... yes absolutely, we believe in one God. But this one God is made up of three persons, who share the same nature, divinity, eternity, power, and character - and when one member of the Trinity acts, in a sense they all act. So for example the resurrection wasn't 'Jesus conquering death' - it was that the Father raised Jesus in the power of the Spirit (Ro 8:11 and others). But that's still not the same thing as saying that the Father died on the cross and rose again. Likewise, Jesus said 'I only do what I see the Father doing', and at his baptism was filled with the Holy Spirit - so again the members of the Trinity are seen together working in perfect harmony. But it's not really enough to say, for example, 'the Holy Spirit raised Lazarus from the dead'. With a fuller understanding of what's going on we might say that 'Jesus, in the power of the Spirit, doing the will of the Father, raised Lazarus from the dead'.
Robert, you said in your post 'I do not have it all figured out' - I really hope that despite my extensive waffling I haven't ever given the impression of having God figured out. Of course I haven't! And having a strong doctrine of the Trinity is actually a powerful corrective to ever having the idea that we have God figured out. Our minds simply cannot compute the idea of one God existing as three persons. And that is how it should be.
You said 'I am not required to figure God out' - exactly. I would agree entirely. Which is why I find it most helpful to think of the Trinity as a relationship to be experienced, not a mathematical equation to be solved. So when I pray, I might say 'Father, would you change me to be more like your Son'. Or when we're worshipping in church 'Holy Spirit, open our eyes to see more of the glory of Jesus'. And so on. I don't fully understand how it works - of course I don't - but I do believe that we are required to respond to God as he reveals himself (in all his complexity and otherness) in the Bible, and not bring him down to our size just because we find him hard to understand.
I hope some of that helps, apologies for the long rambling post! Unquestionably the most helpful book I have found on this issue is Robin Parry's 'Worshipping Trinity' - it's extremely readable, practical and clear, and in my view should be required reading for worship leaders and worship song-writers. I'd really recommend anyone who has even the slightest interest in the topic of this thread (which I'd kind of hope would be anyone and everyone reading it !
Amazon.com: Worshipping Trinity: Coming Back to the Heart of Worship (9781842273470): Robin Parry: Books
God bless
Matt
Matt, that was an excellent read. Thank you for these words from your heart. Yes, I certainly do not understand all this. If I do not understand, I ask questions, express what I 'do' think I understand.....so that is established and can be added to. You are certainly up to the challenge. I wasted so many years of my life away from God and not reading His Word, and I am so Thankfull that these past years He has called me to Him. I am eager to learn more, and pray constantly for Him to 'reveal' His will to me. I read my bible, but 'just reading' is not always enough. To 'understand', God needs to 'give' us 'understanding'. I do not doubt that many years from now, I will read the 'same Words' in my bible and yet 'learn' an entirely new thing.
I am also thankfull to the Lord God for forums like this and people like you who really care that this understanding is 'opened' for others. What an amazing thing.....True fellowship, understanding the Holy Word of God, and edifying each other in the Holy Spirit. This is food. Sometimes there is more 'food' in this way than I am able to find at my church. I do not think this is any accident, it is of God, and that which we do together to learn more of His ways is truely Holy. Thank you for your posts, I look forward to more.
I want to throw a different perspective on this by looking at something else we neglect. Maybe it would be fodder for a new thread.
This thread has gone back and forth about the importance of keeping all the members of the Godhead up front. What about the attributes of God? We lean very heavily on the attribute of love, and write very little about other of God's attributes. We see some mention of God's mercy, His grace, and His holiness. They are all very much a part of Who He is; Is it right to not include all of His attributes in every song?
We write mostly of His love, but if there is a pecking order of God's attributes, it might go like this: He is holy, first and foremost. His holiness cannot tolerate the presence of anything unholy. This brings into play His justice: There is a penalty to pay for our unholiness. But God is also merciful; mercy holds justice at bay. Then enters grace. Grace pays the penalty for our unholiness. Somewhere in all of this, perhaps threaded all through it is love.
Which brings me back to my original thought. Do we necessarily have to include all of God's attributes in a song that tells of His love? I don't think so. Granted, we need to keep a balance: there need to be more songs about God's holiness, justice, mercy, grace.
Now to try to apply this to the Trinity debate. We tend to get spiritual tunnel vision and become one-dimensional in the focus of our songs. We do need to remember that God is Three-in-One. We do need to remember that He is much more than just love. But isn't it ok to sing "only" about His love, or "only about His holiness, or "only" to Jesus sometimes?
Hi wannabe... "Is it OK?" Let NO Man tell you 'how' you can worship the Living God.
Hi Wannabe,
Yes absolutely, we need songs that speak of all the different aspects of God's nature in the same way we need songs that accurately portray the Trinity. I'd also add to that we need songs for every area of Christian life and belief - resurrection, unity, baptism, justice, evangelism, compassion, Communion, death, birth... etc etc.
It's instructive to look through the index of an old hymn book - they had hymns on a vast range of themes that simply aren't covered in today's contemporary worship song repetoire, which consists largely (but by no means entirely) of 'praise songs to/about Jesus'. Something to learn from there I think - not that we go back to 7 verse dirgy hymns, but that we adapt those ideas and themes for our contemporary songs.
A helpful phrase I once heard in a talk to songwriters is 'aim to write to include the whole counsel of God' - no one song can say everything (obviously!!) but over time we need to be writing and singing songs that cover as much as possible of the truth of who God is, whilst still recognising that we can't fit the Lord of heaven and earth into a three and a half minute worship pop song.
God bless
Matt