Prof Stackhouse Takes Swipe at Tomlin

[russhutto]

Oddly enough, I find that if we leave a Tomlin or Houghton song in it's original key women can actually sing it moreso than the men.

Most of the choruses are in the female alto range. Which leaves us guys breathing helium to hit it them, but when we have a female lead vocalist we just play those tunes in the original key.

[Smitty]

I tend not to worry about it too much. When I sing lead on a Tomlin tune I prefer it to be in "G"...sometimes "A". When I'm a BGV on a Tomlin tune, I'll either do a tenor alternate melody part, or do a baritone - tenor "blend". My current worship leader seems to HATE male parts below 2nd Tenor...don't know what thats all about, as most people I have talked with seem to like the lower harmony as much as the higher.

Smitty

[Jason Huffman]

I agree that this is jealous/envy. He cites Fannie Crosby and several other prolific 19th and 20th century songwriters. They used approximate rhyme. He also contradicts himself by calling Tomlin's tunes "hooky" (i.e. catchy, get stuck in your head) but then slams him for approximate rhyme which is one of the primary elements of a good hook in a song. Also, the pop genre is not necessarily built around hard rhymes. As modern music changes, rhyme is less and less a concrete issue...and if the song is memorable, singable, and glorifies God, who cares about the hard or soft "S"s in the song! This guy needs prayer!

[OneAdam12]

Originally Posted by Mortis_Alaska

I am not a Tomlin fan mostly because it all sounds the same to me musically.

This is my problem with Chris Tomlin as well. I think Stackhouse's rhyming argument is ludicrous - I can think of at least a half a dozen hymns off the top of my head that have non-rhyming stanzas (i.e. the words "prove" and "love").

I was a big fan of Chris Tomlin's "Not To Us" CD because at the time it seemed fresh and musically exciting. Now his stuff is boring to me, because it's obviously geared to your K-Love/CCM Lite music listener, and that's not me. However, I don't fault him for it, I just know it's not for me, and that's okay. K-Love can have their Chris Tomlins and Casting Crowns and Mercy Mes, I'll gladly take my Future of Forestry, David Crowder Band, Phil Danyew, The Violet Burning and The Ember Days.

[Moosicman]

I wonder what Rich Mullins would say? And I wonder what Stackhouse would say about some of Rich's songs.

God uses crooked sticks to draw straight lines. Though we should strive to practice "straight-ness", on our very best day, we are still a crooked stick. I would hesitate to hold what resembles a Pharisaical attitude toward anyone for yielding to the Lord that which they have. Stackhouse doesn't know whether this is Tomlin's best or just hurried rubbish. It seems to be like standing around the collection plate and criticizing the widow for her few bits (is that the best you can do??). I don't recall God wanting or waiting for us go get to our very best before showing His power and might. I do recall Him waiting until we were at our weakest, humblest, most powerless, and at our rock bottom before showing His goodness, power, strength, and might on our behalf. Isn't it just like God to take what the world says is no good, and use it to show His glory? It is very interesting, what he wrote, to say the least.

[InHisName]

As a songwriter I can see some of Mr. Stackhouse's points. I love poetry, metaphor, word pictures, etc., and I think it really adds to a song when there is lyrical strength. I agree that there is an abundance of songs with lyrics that might be a little less than perfect in rhyme or weak in metaphor. However, how are we to know how God uses these songs and these songwriters? Perhaps the more simplistic, easily identifiable songs might touch the hearts of some while more lyrical, metaphorical songs reach others.

After all, the most extraordinary scene of worship in the Bible (at least to me) is in Revelation, where the angels and the elders are singing:
"Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!"

13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" 14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

A soft rhyme, "slain" and "praise"...and no rhyme in verse 13 (at least in the English translation, NIV.) And yet this is what we will be singing. Simple, heartfelt, powerful, beautiful.

I challenge Mr. Stackhouse to blog about those lyrics.

[Mike Chase]

Just a thought for everyone who's been criticizing Stackhouse. I'd agree that he could've made his point in a more positive manner, but let's not try and dismiss his points because of who he is and who he is not.

Some have said, 'How many songs has he written'. Are you guys seriously suggesting that one must be a lyricist or songwriter to know what they like in music? To be able to call it good or bad? How many of us have written songs here? Certainly not all of us. How many of us make comments about the lyrics or music in songs we listen to, either at church or on the radio? Well shame on us, for those of us who aren't songwriters, or those of us who don't write in a particular genre, for daring to comment on songs we couldn't produce ourselves! How dare we who don't preach judge a sermon as good or bad. How dare we watch sports and criticize the losing team, or a player who makes an error. How about making an argument against evolution? Are we scientists? If not, what right do we have to open our mouths?

Obviously, the point is that it's perfectly fine to have opinions about things that we cannot do, and that it's backing those opinions up that's important. Furthermore, we're being hypocritical when we, who aren't critics of Christian culture, are trying to critique someone who is, while denying him the authority to critique music since he's not a songwriter. We've also been sharing our own critiques of Tomlin in this thread; who are we to say that Stackhouse shouldn't do the same?

Keep in mind that his current position is as a professor of Theology and Culture (in other words, someone with the academic background that gives him more authority than us to do exactly what he did), and that he's also a musician and played in bands before (see his article on turning down the volume, where he states that).

By all means, dissect what he said, form your own opinions on it, and call out the things he shouldn't have said. But don't do it on the basis of who he is if you want your argument to have any credibility whatsoever.

[Kilroy]

If a song helps only one person get closer to God, it is a treasure to the angels.

And there are no monuments to critics.

[webebo]

IMO, what bothers me most about Stackhouse's comments is his lack of discernment for congregations and not so much his lack of songwriting. The fact that he criticizes someone's songwriting without being one, doesn't necessarily bother me. I was a youth pastor talking to parents about their kids without having any kids myself. Doesn't mean I was wrong in what I was saying. Having said that, I disagree with him.

A friend of mine once said about the majority of people in churches, "They are a mile wide and an inch deep." How true. I would love to be able to sing deeper meaning worship songs in church, but most people would sit back and have no clue to what the meaning of those songs would be. Jesus met people where they were at, ministered to them at their level of understanding. I think the songs from Chris Tomlin do that very thing with many congregations. Now we should, as worship leaders, work to take the congregations we serve to a deeper understanding of Christ and the worship we give, but if we start to deep, we will lose many.

Let's always try to remember that whether we are leading worship or writing songs, or anyone else doing those things, that God has gifted us to serve a group of people. My group will be different than your group. If my group is deeper spiritually or not, doesn't make my method (or songs in this case) any more/less spiritual. It all should come from Jesus.

Just my opinion.

[Moosicman]

Things may be simply profound yet still being profoundly simple. I think we look for "deepness" like it is the be-all, end-all. While we do lack depth in our relationships, I think we're taking ourselves a bit too seriously sometimes. I don't know, that doesn't quite say what I am thinking, but for lack of a better phrase, I'll go with it. But I will occasionally pull out "God Is So Good" or "Jesus Loves Me" just to remind myself and the congregation of some very simple, profound truths that carry as much depth as some theologically under-pinned weighty hymn or chorus.