Originally Posted by efrisch
True that. I'd probably spend the money on a snake that can get all the channels to the main board to let FOH do the mixing. You can run your Aux sends back to the platform to do monitor mixing if you want.
So there are a few reasons to give the in-ear monitoring a shot. The main issues are space and noise. The chancel area is pretty small so between the wedges, mic stands and pedal board the pastor really ends up getting sandwiched during his lesson. The other piece is that the floors really resound through the chancel. The chancel is built acoustically to naturally throw the choir sound out to the congregation so a lot of times during the worship piece the floors end up really coloring the FOH sound due to the chancel acoustic.
Originally Posted by mikeymo1741
We just added the band to worship a few months ago. It's been really well received by the congregation and as a whole they are more engaged then they were previously. Without getting into too much detail our sound crew is a group of volunteers. Some are better than others but even our best guy has trouble getting it right....between the monitor and house mix it just ends up being a lot for them to manage. They can turn the choir and lapel mics on but throw 16 channels of band at them and they are going to have a tough time just getting a flat mix, let alone EQ'ing the kit correctly, getting three separate monitor mixes right, monitoring the recording, etc. etc. It gets to be a lot for a pro to do let alone a volunteer.
I'm new to the church as well so while I thought about setting up a workshop with a local pro, you always run the risk of offending someone.....sometimes there are pride issues involved and everything else....we will eventually have some folks come in [the IEM idea started with a guy that has been doing this a while.....we had met for a short while and he gave us a handful of suggestions to us].
Anyway, right now it just makes the most sense to mix groups and send 3 channels to the main mix. We'll eventually explore the idea of sending a "band specific" snake down bur for now we're going to fool some with the submix and IEM via the personal monitors.
I've got a handful of ideas with the groups that will allow us to run 3 or 4 IEM mixes through these boxes and keep the cabling unobtrusive. I appreciate the ideas....if nothing else it's helped me to think through my plan and get a solid equipment list together.
I'm definitely not disputing the benefits of an IEM setup. It just sounds like you're running an unusual setup. Is it possible to run your IEMs from the aux sends on your stage mixer instead of using the sub groups? In my experience, it will be very hard to get multiple people to be happy with the same mix if you can only adjust those channel groups.
I've got a lexicon reverb in one and a Sonic Maximizer in the other.
Originally Posted by efrisch
I'm thinking about doing a mono direct out from the insert for specific instruments [i/e acoustic guitar etc]. That way the groups will be the "band" at various levels but the personal instrument level could be brought to the front of the mix for that specific case.
Todd, it sounds like you are running things exactly backwards from the way it is usually done.
I understand your point about volunteers. The overwhelming majority of churches, however, have exactly the kind of team you have - volunteers with mediocre talent and little time to improve. That's not saying it's impossible.
You'd be surprised how hungry your guys may be for someone to come in and help them. I recently sent my (all volunteer) team to a workshop, and the sound guys were the ones who were most excited coming out of it. One of them bought a $50 book on mixing and set up a Skype lesson with the guy who taught the course! Do yourself a favor - don't make assumptions for them, and don't let pride issues keep you from moving forward.
My other concern would be this... it's pretty much impossible for you to do a decent FOH mix from the stage. There is a reason that FOH is generally mixed from the back of the room, after all. So, for instance, if something in one of your groups goes out of whack during service, you might not hear it in your monitors, and it might be killing the people in the sanctuary. Their only option at this point would be to bring the whole group down. But what if it's one vocalist who went sharp, or a guitar that went out of tune? You'd lose the whole group.
Obviously, you need to do what's best in your situation, but in my experience, people tend to rise to the level you push them to, especially if they feel they have your trust.
I agree- in many ways subgroups an be harder to manage than you'd think, because you not only have to mix the subgroup, then when something goes wrong, you have to have the discernment to know whether to fix it at a subgroup level or channel level. For instance, if you have one channel (like snare drum) that's hotter than the rest, your sound guy would have to know enough to pull the snare level down in the subgroup instead of pulling the whole 'drums' group down and losing all the drums for the sake of a loud snare.
If your floor wedges are bleeding into the house, even in those kind of rooms, it's more of an issue that people need to learn how to run with low wedge volumes. It can be done- people just need to know how to listen. We are dealing with this at my church. The leader's floor wedge bleeds over into half the sanctuary. I'm trying to work with her and her husband (who is the worship deacon) about getting that better. It can be done. Last night, my company band did a show for United Way family fun night thing. We were in a smaller room, semi-unplugged (no drums, acoustic guitars, piano/keys and bass) and I mixed sound from the stage. I had 2 wedges on poles for mains and 2 wedges on the floor for monitors, all running the 'mains' mix. We ran low volume. Yes, we didn't have drums, but we still had to adjust for lower volumes. And I can tell you from experience trying to do FOH mix from the stage is a real challenge. Your band really has to be aware enough of where they sit in the mix and how to listen for themselves when it's not dominating. I had to tell one of my guitar players and good friends he was loud enough. I couldn't imagine doing more than one mix from the stage. If your guys are struggling with what they are doing now, I can't see how what you are proposing would be any easier for them. Mixing subgroups is not 'set it and forget it'. They will change every week.
Sounds like your team is fairly new to this. There are always growing pains. Most revolve around people an all sides who don't know any better. You have the right idea with having a local expert come in and help. It's about learning how to get what you want without spending a year of costly trial and error. I have yet to hear anyone who used a consultant (an actual pro, not a GC salesman or Crutchfield junkie) say it was wasted time and money. You'll save yourself a lot of heartburn.
Thanks for the unbiased input Mike. We'll probably stick with the status quo for now and think about moving forward with some changes after a second consultation [the first was done by a local worship leader at a large church]. I can probably eventually rework the existing snake to accommodate most of the setup [right now the inputs are all over the chancel so we would just have to relocate some of them].
Originally Posted by Mike on Bass
I wish I could clone myself on Sunday mornings. It would make life @ Woodlawn a little easier....for now it's just going to be putting along with the current setup....God is teaching me patience.
In the end I think the IEM makes sense at least for me. I've worked with them before and it's just a personal preference really. I've found the sound to be more of a studio quality [or at least that's what my experience has been].....helps prevent overplaying/singing etc.
Last edited by toddincharlotte; 10-27-2012 at 11:54 AM.