steensn & fmckinnon Thanks for the advice. I wish the Pastor's family would see it that way, about giving him some time to recuperate, but its sort of seen as not relying on God's grace in their eyes. They say that making the sacrifice and effort to make it to service is the better choice, and it helps to be lifted up by the fellowship of those around you instead of sulking at home wallowing in your thoughts. Although, I dont want to make it sound like they were pressuring him, that was absolutely not the case. They gave him his room, and did not object to him coming when he could.
I agree to that mentality in some circumstances, but in this one I can't. It was obvious to them (but unfortunately not to me) that he was going through somewhere dark these past 2 weeks, or longer, and they really should have gotten him outside help. But then again, after their son saying he's done with the ministry, and seeing him unexpectedly show up again, who would tell their son to sit down?
And I'm sad to report that things are not getting better.
My wife told me this morning there was an Elders meeting last night, and our Pastor is doing really bad. He addressed the issue and said he had read the letter I sent and understood where I came from. Never-the-less the problem he saw and brought to everyone's attention, was that no-one should be sat down because of lack of talent. It's true, in the 7 years I've been there regardless of your skill level if you had a heart for worship you were never sat down. And his son as a Pastor and Previous Worship Leader, should not have been sat down. If that courtesy was extended to others, how much more not to his own son? Looking at it that way, I can see where I picked the importance of sounding good, over his family, and Im starting to feel guilty about it. Plus the fact that our Pastor is practically my wife's father (he's been the central male figure in her life since she was 13, her parents divorced early) doesn't help the situation. Seeing him like this is really hurting her.
My guilt is of course made worse by the fact that they have not heard from him since this Saturday. He's not missing per se, but refuses to communicate with his parents and has not come home to sleep at the house (where he's been since the divorce). Knowing this and how he had said he had given up on himself the week before, idk if I could handle it if he did something. I definitely would walk away out of shame, in my head I know I wouldn't be responsible, but I could never look them in the eyes again. I'm talking worse case scenario here, but it still wracking my head.
There's nothing I can do to make it right anymore. It's not as black & white as I first thought, I just hope and pray that God can fix this huge mess with no casualties. Geez I wish time travel was real sometimes .
Last edited by NathanLuna87; 06-06-2012 at 09:14 AM.
Man- I feel for you.
Well, here's what comes to my mind, as I'd consider strapping up Nike's in your situation.
- Would leaving now be the right thing to do? Would you be comfortable with yourself? When the going gets tough do the tough quit? That's not meant to be masculine or macho, but I don't care where you go, there will be problems. There is a time to cut bait, but there is also a time to stick it out.
I would think a formidable rebuttal would be that he wasn't sat down for lack of talent- it was lack of preparation and commitment (unless you clearly said lack of talent in the letter). I don't care how big your 'heart' (a.k.a intention) is, if you unprepared and uncommitted, it's grounds to sit out....that no-one should be sat down because of lack of talent. It's true, in the 7 years I've been there regardless of your skill level if you had a heart for worship you were never sat down.
It seems he's putting family over ministry. This is lose-lose. If you sit him down, you embarrass the pastor. If you leave him in and the show falls apart, you embarrass yourself and the ministry. Neither scenario ends well.And his son as a Pastor and Previous Worship Leader, should not have been sat down.
This is one of those times where the church finds out what it's made of. The pastor is hurting, and this could lead him to hurt others. This is compounded by the fact your wife sees him as a father, so it's not going to be a clean break, no matter what color Nikes you put on.
That may be- but what you can do is pray, be wise, and maintain love and understanding. Like any other relationship, you will have to determine what is there to build from, to learn from, and make stronger.There's nothing I can do to make it right anymore
The entire church is watching what's going on. This adds fuel to the fire. People will pick sides, people will speculate, the rumor mill will be in full swing, there will be a lot more drama. Try your best to avoid that by telling 'your side' only to those whom you trust and know will keep your confidence- even if it's people outside the church. If people ask questions, politely tell them that you are working it out with leadership- remember, you don't owe them an answer. They don't need to know. How you handle this will go a long way to establishing your level of integrity.
Still praying- it's a tough thing for a church to go through.
And to tag along here.....
enjoy the summer break! wooo hoooo relax. rejuvenate, learn new music recruit new players!!!!!!!!!!
Then come back stronger fresher, newer in August!
see, thats not so bad an idea is it?
I didn't mean to be inaccurate, but I wasn't trying to be precise.
Well put Mike.
Nathan, you are in a tough spot. I can bet that most here disagree with the idea that no one should be sat down for lack of talent. If it is going to be a distraction, then the church is better off just singing “a capella.“
Further, the son doesn't only have two options: (1) Serve the church by ministering to others, attend church, be part of the fellowship, receive good council, etc. OR (2) sit at home and sulk. He can be part if the body, fellowship, and submit to the Lord while he goes through this season in life without ministering to others. It's a sad misconception of your pastor that I would personally call him out one-on-one regarding as I feel it is so significant. The church should be circling around the son in such a way that he doesn’t feel he even has a choice to not fellowship and take council.
You're in a tough spot, I know the Lord will use it to his will as he always does.
Thanks everyone, all I can do now is sit and pray.
And yes, I did not sit him down for lack of talent, but lack of preparation and overall him and his sons not knowing the songs at all (which I did state in the letter). But the Pastor included this the in the lack of talent/preparation sort of thing.
I haven't spoken to anyone else about this other than to my wife and here on the forum. I don't want to spread problems and I don't want this to become a Me vs. The Pastor situation. It's not what I want at all. Sound advice on that thank you Mike.
Thank you for the prayers everyone, I'm still in hopes for reconciliation between all of us. Some of the insight I've gained here will help in the event me and the Pastors ever get to sit down and talk over coffee. And I know if anyone can make it happen, God can.
1) Your pastor has some serious personal issues, and those issues are having a major impact on how he is leading others. I understand your personal relationship with him via your wife makes it difficult, but I would never allow my family to be shepherded by a man like the one you've described. If what you have shared is true, he is not a man being led by God's Spirit, and is therefore not fit to lead my family.
2) The son would NEVER have been allowed to lead worship under my care. His recent divorce and his previous track record of unreliability would have been more than enough to disqualify him from being on stage leading others in worship. Not that he should be shunned, but he obviously needs some professional help, in a few different ways, and somebody in his state should never be burdened with the responsibility of leading others in worship. The ultimate responsibility of this lies on your pastor's shoulders, but I hope that you also take some valuable lessons away from this situation and use them in wisdom in the future.
3) The blame others may place on you involving anything the son does or doesn't due and your own guilt are both undeserved and straight from Satan. The decision you made was the correct one, for the correct reasons. The fact that pertinent information about the sons spiritual/emotional state was withheld from you is on the shoulders of somebody else. The fact that that others are blaming you and calling you out both privately and publicly shows a total lack of spiritual discernment and Biblical accountability on their part...it also is evidence of the involvement of Satan (anything that divides the church has the fingerprints of Satan all over it). Again, if I were you, for the sake of my own health and the health of my family, I'd be running away from these people.
And, for what it's worth, if I were told by my pastors that "skill" is the only Biblical qualification for ministry, I'd quit right now and find another means of supporting my family.
I can't believe it, I'm still kind of in disbelief actually. But its only believable in the Lord.
I just received a letter from my Pastor asking for forgiveness. Saying that he understands the big mistakes he had made in this situation, and that the responsibility for all this was his alone. His son also came home and when he heard about what the Pastor had done he got upset, since he thought it was unwarranted and unfair.
I have to say, the Lord knows when He needs to step in. Just this morning I had decided in my heart that I would step down from Leadership and leave the ministry. My decision was based on the fact that this situation was going from bad to worse with no resolution (in my) sight. I'd definitely file this one under "Divine Intervention".
Thank you everyone for your encouragement, advice and your prayers.
Grace and Peace ,
That's great news Jon.
Clearly the pastor and his son need ongoing prayer. I'm glad the pastor took some initiative with you. I'm also glad you've come to a decision in your own heart. If you hadn't I'd definitely have suggested a "time-out" from ministry to rest and let your thoughts settle. But it sounds like they have already.
I don't encourage anyone to stay in ministry when their heart isn't right, not just in sin but in resentment, disillusionment, bitterness etc. I've recently encouraged musos to step down because they were burning out and resenting the ministry - not a good place to be. Take your rest and see where God leads you from the other side.
May the Lord lift you up
Great news- things are looking up.
I pray all continues to work out for you.
I would still consider sitting down with the Pastor (after things settle a bit) and see if you could work out some safeguards to keep this situation from happening again.
Again, glad things are looking up.