Worship Band: Rethinking Which Instrument Does What?

[travisvwright]

I was just thinking this morning Ian McIntosh the keyboard player for JC/Bethel used to be an active member hear. I'd love to hear his opinion on this, specifically the, "Pads are too borring".

[d.t.maldo]

Does anyone have any input on getting an effects pedal for an acoustic for the time being? I have a Taylor 414 that I love and plays great. Just until I can buy the electric and effects, would it be worth it to get an effects for m acoustic or does that sound super cheesy? I was looking into the Fishman AFX Delay pedal. Also the Line 6 POD. I know its for electrics but wont it do the same for acoustics that it does for electrics? I wont be using anything other then reverb/delay probably and once I purchase an electric, I wont have to buy another pedal since that one is already made for electrics. Is this something that could work or am I just being a little too cheap?

[sycamoredave]

Does anyone have any input on getting an effects pedal for an acoustic for the time being? I have a Taylor 414 that I love and plays great. Just until I can buy the electric and effects, would it be worth it to get an effects for m acoustic or does that sound super cheesy? I was looking into the Fishman AFX Delay pedal. Also the Line 6 POD. I know its for electrics but wont it do the same for acoustics that it does for electrics? I wont be using anything other then reverb/delay probably and once I purchase an electric, I wont have to buy another pedal since that one is already made for electrics. Is this something that could work or am I just being a little too cheap?

It is possible, and I have done this on rare occasions with my Ovation Elite for specific roles where a guitar switch is not practical, and we do not have enough guitarists. I run my acoustic through a RP500 on a regular basis, using clean, acoustic, and chorus channels with reverb, now and then hitting the distortion switch. The sound guys have indicated this creates some pretty nice effects and does not confuse the sound. "Happy Day" is one example of a song where we do the entrance with distortion, and then I click back to acoustic. It is not ideal, as you are playing an instrument that projects a fair amount of acoustic sound, coupled to a different effect that will be projected over the mains. I found a need to physically turn the instrument away from the congregation in order not to create a confusing sound. This creates a problem if I am singing vocals. Our sanctuary is small, so this may not be a problem for you. We have found ways to make this work, but it is not ideal, and the better solution is to just go ahead and pick up a moderately priced but workable used electric guitar, or, see if you can recruit another electric player into the team.

Blessings...
Dave

[improvise88]

Just to add in two cents from a keyboard players perspective. If you are going to go the route of the keyboardist only playing pads and patches, prepare yourself for them to quit. Especially if they are a trained pianist at the core. We will only put up with it for so long. That's not being elitist or "not a team player", it's just the truth. Playing pads is, quite frankly, a waste of a keyboardist's time. If you are committed to getting that eternal drone underneath everything, ala Jesus Culture, I would highly recommend starting to play with click tracks rather than condemning your keyboard players to musical purgatory.

[d.t.maldo]

How else do you achieve that sound? I mean that literally too. This is the style that the congregation and everyone likes, so how do we do it?

How does the keyboard player for Jesus Culture do it? Everyone has their purpose...I used to play bass, I know what its like to play boring, time wasting stuff.

[improvise88]

My serious reply to this is: It is either pre-programmed, or the keyboard players they assign to this task are not "trained". They do not have a systematic piano background. If Jesus Culture actually has a live player laying down all the pads in the background, that would shock me. As an example, Hillsong has been using the background synth drone for a couple of decades, but very seldom is it played live by a person. It is programmed and part of the click track.

If all we are talking about is a song every now and then, anything can be tolerated. But if it is an every-song, never-do-anything-else? Too much to ask.

[efrisch]

I commented on the guitar side a while ago, but now that the conversation has turned to keys... as someone pointed out above, the keyboard player from Jesus Culture is a member of this forum... perhaps he will get a chance to give some input on all of this. I'll add two thoughts on the pad issue from my perspective:

-We have the "pad drone" going most of the time, and it's usually part of our click track.

-As a keyboard player, I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I was expected to play pad ONLY, but it certainly is a big part of the modern worship music. I agree that I wouldn't want to do it all the time, but I certainly don't have a problem with playing pad only when it's the appropriate sound. Typically, if I'm playing in a scenario where there are no click tracks or loops, I'll have a pad layer set up under my piano/rhodes, etc. most of the time that only goes away if I move to an organ patch.

[Mike on Bass]

Everyone has their purpose...I used to play bass, I know what its like to play boring, time wasting stuff.

You must play bass a lot different than I do.

You are right that everyone has their purpose. It's also everyone's purpose to bring themselves to their instrument and make it come alive. Granted, much of the 'pop praise' stuff lends itself to generic bass lines (I've voiced my frustration with that before), but painting bass as whole as 'boring, time wasting stuff', maybe you aren't looking in the right spot.

For what it's worth, if you want inspiration for bass, throw on Rush, or the Who, or Cream, grab some Jaco, Vic Wooten, Marcus Miller, James Jamerson, and about 100 other names that make bass anything but 'boring time wasting stuff'.

Like the saying goes, "all eyes might be on the star, but their heads are bobbing to the bass guitar"

More to the discussion, I understand why praise teams want to be authentic in covering songs, but more often than not, it's a stumbling block. If teams spent more time sounding like themselves, everything else will fall into place.

My work band is a cover band. P&W bands are cover bands. Praise/worship artists are covering each other's songs all the time. They do it as themselves, and it's ok. Michael W. Smith doesn't try to sing "Heart of Worship" like Matt Redman. Gateway Worship brought us "Revelation Song", with Kari Jobe & PC&D do their own covers of it. But each artists' rendition of it stands on its own. We have our preferences, but covering a song as an exact replica gets important if you are looking at being a tribute band- that's a whole other level.

We all need to use our team's own strengths and abilities to take a song and bring forth genuine praise. If you don't have all the gadgets and gizmos to make the patches, make up for it with enthusiasm and expression. Besides, maybe God wants someone to make a different version so other churches can use it and not feel pressured to sound like JC. I just don't want to see anyone get defeated because they can't play a song like [enter artist/band here] does. That's not what we are here to do. If you want that, make everyone's life easy and go to canned music. Just do what you do, and be *you*, offering it up as praise to God, genuine and complete. Everything else will fall into place.

[steensn]

**WARNING** ^ not a pianist

Ok, so I got that out. I LOVE it when worship is broken up with different instruments as lead. The piano and guitar seem the most logical choice in most circumstances. The piano is certainly NOT boring by any means done right.

But I will challenge the idea that if the keys are not "fancy" or more than pads and patches that it's because they are untrained or using a synth. Paul Baloche plays with a very well trained pianist, classically with degree(s) in music, and they both teach that it is perfectly fine to have a pianist just fill in with pads and patches. Many do it, it isn't a waste of their time, it's just a style and a part of the end goal, which is good spirit led worship. Same for bass and drums. Have many friends who play keyboard in bands who are capable of much much more but are happy filling a need for the Lord's glory.

A synth track can't improv...

[billy4t]

Just to add in two cents from a keyboard players perspective. If you are going to go the route of the keyboardist only playing pads and patches, prepare yourself for them to quit. Especially if they are a trained pianist at the core. We will only put up with it for so long. That's not being elitist or "not a team player", it's just the truth. Playing pads is, quite frankly, a waste of a keyboardist's time. If you are committed to getting that eternal drone underneath everything, ala Jesus Culture, I would highly recommend starting to play with click tracks rather than condemning your keyboard players to musical purgatory.

This is an interesting sentiment considering the same could be said of acoustic guitar. I've got a college degree in classical guitar performance and I'm often strumming 1/8th notes for most songs. Don't get me wrong, when I can play fingerstyle I enjoy it much more.

Side note, I saw Hillsong last October and there was a guy who specifically was playing pads the whole set. It wasn't for the purpose of "the eternal drone" but moreso to flow in between songs.

To be honest though, my personal preference is acoustic instruments. upright piano, string bass, organic stuff. It just is a lot harder to play in that sort of folk jam style with a group that isn't inclined to that. So we play Tomlin and Redman and take baby steps towards the style that best represents our team and our church.