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Thread: Can someone help me with some fact-finding?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central Alabama
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    16

    Question Can someone help me with some fact-finding?

    Our pastor came to me last week with some questions/concerns about CCLI. He had received an e-mail notifying him that it was time for our audit/reporting to CCLI. In his preparations, he saw the types of licenses offered by CCLI and he misunderstood the concept of the Church Rehearsal License; he thought we were going to have to pay another fee for the right to rehearse the songs. I did some quick research and allayed that fear, but I used that as an opportunity to approach him about SongSelect.

    I'll admit, I thought SongSelect was a no-brainer. Even the highest level, Premium, only costs $182/year, and I would deem the benefits to be great. Our worship leader doesn't go to the Christian bookstore or online sources to buy sheet music. The team (long before she came along) simply used whatever means necessary to figure out how to play the song: jotting down chords from those who could play by ear, doing internet research, etc.

    That is still the norm, and when she finds a new song she wants us to learn, everyone sets to work to figure it out and more often than not, we wind up with versions written in different keys, different interpretations of chords, etc. As I have discussed elsewhere, the leader isn't a musician, so she doesn't select a definite key as our baseline, she simply listens to someone play and asks for it to be higher or lower until it fits.

    Anyway, I see the benefits of SongSelect: a legal method for acquiring lead sheets, on-the-fly transpositions, playable melody and harmony lines would mean she could listen, sing along, transpose and then print the version she wants and when she hands out the sheets at rehearsal, there's no guess work or confusion.

    Our pastor isn't convinced. He wants to make sure that there is both a value to us AND a commitment that the service would be utilized. I think he's still confused about why the way we've been doing it is bad, and he is a stickler for "if you ask me to buy it, don't let it sit unused after you get it." One of his concerns is "how do we know that the songs we are interested in learning will be available?" Apparently when he does the CCLI audits, there are frequently songs we perform that aren't on the CCLI list, so he's concerned that our new songs will be missing from SongSelect.

    So that brings me to my mission. I don't want anyone to go download anything for me; I want to find out if a good cross-section of the songs we already have in our repertoire are available on Song Select. That way I can tell him XX% of the songs I inquired about were already in SongSelect and I see no reason that the percentage won't hold up for new songs as well.

    So, can some helpful forumite whose church uses SongSelect log on and see how many of the following songs are available there? All I need to know is a "Yes" or "No" for each song.

    1. You're So Good - Daniel Eric Groves
    2. In the Sanctuary - The Kurt Carr Singers
    3. Heaven on Earth - David and Nicole Binion
    4. Freedom Reigns - Jason Upton
    5. At the Cross - Hillsong
    6. Say So - Israel Houghton
    7. Our God is Awesome - Pastor Charles Jenkins
    8. Hail To The King - Hillsong
    9. Shekinah Glory (We Wait for You) - Jaye Thomas & Cory Asbury
    10. Rescue - Newsong


    Now, I feel some of these are more obscure songs, and some aren't, but this will give me a good sample to go back to him with.

    I really appreciate the assistance!

    Steve

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Posts
    283

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    I searched for about 5 of your songs, and they are there..dont have time to search them all... There are literally thousands... Hundreds of thousands of songs on there.. Almost every musician registers their songs with CCLI.. and thus they end up on there..If your pastor doesn't see the value.. He's blind, and thats not meant to be rude.. Pretty simple... If a new song takes say.. 30 minutes to figure out and type... Then another 20 at rehearsal to compare notes and make changes... SongSelect takes 5 seconds to find a song, pick a key, and then print... Youvesaved nearly an hour per song..I would never work at a church as a musician if they didn't have SongSelect..

    On to something that concerns me even more... Your worship leader isn't a musician??? Meaning instrument or vocal? How on earth did he/she that job?? A church worship leader who isn't a musician... That doesn't seem right, and that worries me even more than the fact that your pastor doesn't see the value in SongSelect...


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    Last edited by chrisburke; 04-19-2012 at 06:12 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Stratford, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    875

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    I see you do some gospel tunes, and I can tell you from experience a lot of them will not be there, or if they are, they will be lyrics only. SongSelect has some very obscure songs, but not a lot of gospel songs.

    I understand your pastor not getting why it's important - it's hard for a non-musician to figure out it's value. If you can't impress him with the legality part, it may be a lost. cause, because a lot of folks think pulling stuff off the net is the best solution.

    You can throw in a free planning center account and up the value for him!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    1,087

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    I concur that SongSelect is worth the cost; it will do everything you mentioned.
    You need to talk to the WL about this, explain to her what you explained to the pastor, and let her sell it to him. After all, that is her responsibility. If you talk the pastor into ordering this and bypass the WL, it might not set well with her.
    Tom

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central Alabama
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    16

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisburke View Post
    Your worship leader isn't a musician???
    She is a vocalist. She can also play a very small number of songs on the keyboard (touch only, not many chords and no incidental notes). She doesn't read music, and she doesn't actually play anything by ear. What she can play is stuff she has listened to at home and figured out the notes by pausing and locating it on the keyboard adn moving to the next note.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeymo1741 View Post
    I see you do some gospel tunes, and I can tell you from experience a lot of them will not be there, or if they are, they will be lyrics only. SongSelect has some very obscure songs, but not a lot of gospel songs.

    I understand your pastor not getting why it's important - it's hard for a non-musician to figure out it's value. If you can't impress him with the legality part, it may be a lost. cause, because a lot of folks think pulling stuff off the net is the best solution.

    You can throw in a free planning center account and up the value for him!
    I must confess I can't readily distinguish between gospel, praise, worship or other named types of Christian music. When you say gospel, I think traditional hymnal songs, and we rarely do that type of music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabe a Worshiper View Post
    I concur that SongSelect is worth the cost; it will do everything you mentioned.
    You need to talk to the WL about this, explain to her what you explained to the pastor, and let her sell it to him. After all, that is her responsibility. If you talk the pastor into ordering this and bypass the WL, it might not set well with her.
    Tom
    The pastor is much more likely to get the legal argument than the worship leader. I think much of it is the innocent (or perhaps naive) conception that much of what we do doesn't have legal ramifications because we are a church and doing it for the Lord. I do know our pastor is adamant about not using pirated software, so he has that concept. He feels that we are promoting the song which could lead to song sales, so he sometimes wonders why we pay to sing the songs. He does it, but he doesn't fully appreciate why.

    I have a degree in Communications, and we discussed intellectual property and copyright law in my classes, so I understand it better perhaps. I have also written a few songs that have not been published. It frustrates me when I can't explain the laws in such a way that people get it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    422

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    I have been using SongSelect for several years now and can't imagine life without it. When I think of how long it took me to create chord charts all those years... I shudder! It's truly a great resource and saves so much time... Also, in addition to chord charts, you can get lead sheets (the melody line written out in notes) and even 4-part harmonies for choir or praise team singers. It's well worth the money, even if only half the songs you do are included there. Also, if you have plans to introduce any new songs to your congregation, it's likely the songs will be there.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2

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    I can make an excellent reference to CCLI for legal terms. Several years ago a church in our area did not have
    the proper music permissions and had just used jotted down cords etc. The auditors came in and the church was fined $100.00 per sheet of music that was found and used without permission. This caused the church a great loss. So please people use CCLI. It makes it legal for you to use what you need. Also, worshiptogether.com is another great source and works with CCLI. I am a worship leader of a very small church plant and have a repertoire of over 100 pieces of music from CCLI that are used, always having a great choice and variety for our congregation. Our congregation loves this.

  8. #8

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    and when she finds a new song she wants us to learn, everyone sets to work to figure it out and more often than not, we wind up with versions written in different keys, different interpretations of chords, etc.
    Use that to make the case with her- would you rather spend rehearsal figuring out what key to play it in, or actually playing it?

    They have a few 'free' songs you can use as a demo. Sit down with them and show them what yo ucan do

    he is a stickler for "if you ask me to buy it, don't let it sit unused after you get it."
    Can't fault him there. I'm sure he, like many others, has had to deal with people wanting to spend money on curriculum for kids, Bible study materials, etc. that never get used. So, present a value story on time and effort- 1 minute versus one hour for the way you do it now. One person looking up a song and printing copies versus 3-4 people finding half-wrong chords from "wrongchordsfromamateurs.com" and mashing it together.

    Apparently when he does the CCLI audits, there are frequently songs we perform that aren't on the CCLI list, so he's concerned that our new songs will be missing from SongSelect
    You can go there yourself and search for the songs- you can't download them, but you can see what's there.

    What's the ratio of 'frequently'? One song every couple months? one a week? every other song?

    He feels that we are promoting the song which could lead to song sales, so he sometimes wonders why we pay to sing the songs. He does it, but he doesn't fully appreciate why.
    One approach I take is to remind him it goes both ways- he can say he's 'promoting' a song, but playing those songs also has the potential to 'promote' his church' by drawing people (and the money they bring) to his church. So the benefit goes both ways. If he quits playing songs, watch how fast people leave the church. The artist not only wrote it, but someone had to spend money to record it, engineer it, produce it, manufacture it, and market it so the pastor can use it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Grayson, Ga
    Posts
    7

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    My two cents on Song Select. I think it is a great resource and have rarely ran into songs not listed, though it just happened today looking for the Jesus Culture song, "Heaven Is Here". They actually only list 8 Jesus Culture songs currently. However, on occasion I find that the arrangements for some songs are just missing chords, here & there. It's not a big enough problem to brush the site off at all. For what it's worth, I often check out Praise Charts and must say that they have better arrangements. Both are good sources, but I personally pay $1.99 for each Praise Charts chord chart. Our church also just bought Planning Center and I only just started looking at it this week, so I don't have an opinion on it, but many questions.

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