chorus first in songselect

[byronyasgur]

BTW, CCLI's FAQs indicate that the arrangement that Song Select displays is based on what the copyright holder/publisher provides to them, not on a recording.

So there you have it...

yes but obviuously the publisher must be led to prodivde them chorus first or something or else why would all the songs end up that way

but thanks for the information - where is it by the way - cant find it at all.

[musicianinthestates]

They may provide this "out of order" printout so that music savvy teams can arrange as it fits their ministry. I can't count the number of times we've changed the order that was recorded, such as verse 1 and 2 together instead of the chorus between, or gone with someone else's recording other than the original, i.e. M.W. Smith's version of "Amazing Grace - My Chains are Gone" instead of Tomlin's original, etc.

If that doesn't suit your needs, bully for you, do a copy/paste from some website that has the words in the order Joe Blow recorded it.

[byronyasgur]

They may provide this "out of order" printout so that music savvy teams can arrange as it fits their ministry. I can't count the number of times we've changed the order that was recorded, such as verse 1 and 2 together instead of the chorus between, or gone with someone else's recording other than the original, i.e. M.W. Smith's version of "Amazing Grace - My Chains are Gone" instead of Tomlin's original, etc.

If that doesn't suit your needs, bully for you, do a copy/paste from some website that has the words in the order Joe Blow recorded it.

so why does the printout have to be "out of order" for this ... couln't the music savvy teams reorganise it if it's in the "correct" order or something ??

nobody has yet given me a reasonable answer

... by the way ... there's no need to tell me to "like it or lump it" - i can work that out for myself thanks - and if you'd properly read the post you'd see that technical things like copy and paste are the very think i'm trying to avoid !

[musicianinthestates]

You've been a member all of 4 days, and you've shown little to no respect for the members of this board who HAVE given multiple reasonable answers for your question.

Did you ever stop to think that writer may have actually written the song hook first, then wrote the verses and bridge? You asked why its not printed "in the order it was written," maybe it is! I've written several songs where the chorus came to me first. The "arrangement" you hear may not have been the writer's intent, but the album producers' vision of what would "sell" in the music industry. and SongSelect is through publishers, not recording companies.

Step back, look at how others are perceiving your posts, and re-think your approach before answering posts.

P.S. I apologize for suggesting a solution you're trying to avoid.

[byronyasgur]

Did you ever stop to think that writer may have actually written the song hook first, then wrote the verses and bridge? You asked why its not printed "in the order it was written," maybe it is! I've written several songs where the chorus came to me first. The "arrangement" you hear may not have been the writer's intent, but the album producers' vision of what would "sell" in the music industry. and SongSelect is through publishers, not recording companies.

i've been a writer for about 30 years and i've often written a song chours first .... but i still dont know what you're talking about

[musicianinthestates]

i've been a writer for about 30 years and i've often written a song chours first .... but i still dont know what you're talking about

If you've been writing for 30 years, you should have plenty of songs. Why not just use your material, which is already typed the way you approve?

Maybe you should upload your songs on CCLI and see how they arrange it to print out!

[russhutto]

much ado about nothing.

TEACH your volunteers to run their ministries excellently and you won't have this problem.

I understand that you need the easiest solution, but it appears to be apparent (or even obvious) that the solution that you're looking for doesn't exist.

And if NOBODY can give you a reasonable answer, then either:

1) There isn't one.
2) You're not listening.
3) Both.

In this situation, when it appears that everyone else and their brother (and sisters) works just fine with the established system (which isn't broken by the way), why not just spend a few MINUTES learning and teaching your volunteers the necessary skills to run the presentation software effectively, including inputting the songs.

If that is just NOT an option, I would suggest that YOU, as the leader, take a few minutes during the week and input the songs the way YOU want them, and carry on as usual. It's not really that big of a deal.

As a moderator, I'm tempted to shut this thread down because it seems to be going nowhere.

[byronyasgur]

If you've been writing for 30 years, you should have plenty of songs. Why not just use your material, which is already typed the way you approve?

Maybe you should upload your songs on CCLI and see how they arrange it to print out!

nasty - and not very wise - you know nothing about me
and incidently i do use my own stuff, just not exclucively - but what has that do with it anyway ?

[byronyasgur]

TEACH your volunteers to run their ministries excellently and you won't have this problem.

I understand that you need the easiest solution, but it appears to be apparent (or even obvious) that the solution that you're looking for doesn't exist.

for a start I myself am a volunteer - the other people are not "my volunteers" - and secondly this is not the issue - i am not, as you suggest, expecting anyone on this board provide a solution to me - i have not asked for advice and i dont need any either ! ---- i am just asking why ccli put the chorus first and reserve the right to disagree with some of the reasons put forth - i dont understand why that's such a big deal .

In this situation, when it appears that everyone else and their brother (and sisters) works just fine with the established system (which isn't broken by the way), why not just spend a few MINUTES learning and teaching your volunteers the necessary skills to run the presentation software effectively, including inputting the songs.

obviously I AM going to HAVE to do that - but i shouldnt have to - again i am just trying to find out why - but clearly that inquisitivness is frowned upon. The people who will be working the system are not that technical but they are far from stupid and I simply know that they will double take at the idea of having to arrange the song on input - why - because they will think that it's stupid - the reasons given for why the lyrics are first range from the bizzare to the ridiculous
the bottom line is this - if the song imported in the normal order, you could change it if you had to ( and everybody would be happy, including me !!! and i dont see what difference it would make to anyone else) - seing as it doenst import in the normal order then it's a given that you have to change it - obviouly that means a number of things - 1) the person has to do some extra work for every song ( not a big deal i know but true nonetheless) - 2)they have to be a bit more skilled (normally they would be - but why alienate people from ministry ) but most importantly 3) they need to know the song ( for me this is a real nuisance but i know in a big ministry it wouldnt even be an issue but for me it's a nuisance)- i just thought that with those as negatives ( minor you may say but ... ) someone might have one plus side to counter these negatives but nobody did - the idea that having the chorus first makes it possible to edit is clearly wrong by the way - and so is the insane idea that the author might have written it that way ( How in God's earth would anyone know - and what difference does it make ?) ... and so too is the generic version of this that most writers start with the chorus - all utter rubbish - none of these are reasonable at all - if anyone thinks they are then they are quite gullible in my opinion and in dire need of wisdom

If that is just NOT an option, I would suggest that YOU, as the leader, take a few minutes during the week and input the songs the way YOU want them, and carry on as usual. It's not really that big of a deal.

i know it's not that big of a deal but there's still no reason for it - and there are other issues with this including ( as far as im aware ) the fact that we would be limited to open source software or else buy multiple commercial licences for different computers as the presentation computer would not be accessible mid week - but i havent finished my research on this yet so ??

I've been explaining and repeating and defending myself for the last few days - i've been mis-read, misunderstood, mistreated and expected to believe total nonsense. This is a total waste of time for me, honestly. If you people want to believe that CCLI are doing you some kind of favour by changing the order then go for it - myself i really dont think so but I know I'm entitled to my opinion so ......

[musicianinthestates]

much ado about nothing.

TEACH your volunteers to run their ministries excellently and you won't have this problem.

I understand that you need the easiest solution, but it appears to be apparent (or even obvious) that the solution that you're looking for doesn't exist.

And if NOBODY can give you a reasonable answer, then either:

1) There isn't one.
2) You're not listening.
3) Both.

In this situation, when it appears that everyone else and their brother (and sisters) works just fine with the established system (which isn't broken by the way), why not just spend a few MINUTES learning and teaching your volunteers the necessary skills to run the presentation software effectively, including inputting the songs.

If that is just NOT an option, I would suggest that YOU, as the leader, take a few minutes during the week and input the songs the way YOU want them, and carry on as usual. It's not really that big of a deal.

As a moderator, I'm tempted to shut this thread down because it seems to be going nowhere.

I'm on board with this.

nasty - and not very wise - you know nothing about me
and incidently i do use my own stuff, just not exclucively - but what has that do with it anyway ?

What I mean is, if you want something done right (read that, your way) do it yourself. Cut out the middleman ie CCLI, worship kitchen, etc...

2)they have to be a bit more skilled (normally they would be - but why alienate people from ministry ) but most importantly 3) they need to know the song ( for me this is a real nuisance but i know in a big ministry it wouldnt even be an issue but for me it's a nuisance)

God gives everyone skill sets so everyone is needed to make the world go round. Not everyone can or will be able to run the computer.

If they aren't learning the songs, are they really part of your ministry team?? I see issues in that alone.



Shut her down Russ!! He's not going to be satisfied with any response other than "you're absolutely right! I'm going to boycott CCLI until they do it the Byron way!"