Pope banning contemporary worship

[Don_Z]

Nick,

I disagree. I do not think that any one music is the solution. That is the entire point to my post. You have to use all the tools available to you to reach the diverse community of people that is out their.

I am in a community where we use traditional hymns mixed in with lightly blended contemporary charts. I am sensitive to my congregation's worshiping needs and that is what is important.

I suggested the diverse committee of common priests and clergy because they are NOT academics and therefore 'of the people' for the most part. The Pope would benefit from receiving council from those that are sitting in the trenches on topics such as this. Those that sit so far removed cannot truly find the pulse of the church. It is the same in our denomination. One must never believe him or herself above another. Christ said that he that seeks to be first will be last and those that are last will be first. We should always look to this when we approach servant leadership. We lead, but we lead as Jesus lead. He was willing to wash the feet of His disciples... The heads of the church must be willing to do the same.

Music is a powerful tool for worshiping God. David proved that. The Pope simply has to be cautious with whom he surrounds himself with. Everything he does in today's society is being watched and I am sure like you mentioned there is a lot of that article that got lost in translation. Still, the whole world is watching to see what policies he sets. It is the price of doing business for the RCC.

Peace,

Don

[NickAlexander]

Don,

You're not quite seeing my point.

Mass holds a very different function, than say, a tent revival or a praise and worship event.

The latter can be likened (in a positive way), to a Beatles convention. The former can be likened to hanging out at Paul McCartney's house. Very different places, very different functions.

And all the talk of the Pope being so out of touch... Did you not read my comments? This Pope knows his audiences incredibly well. I even gave you a reference to read for yourself.

You are entitled to believe what you want about the pope, but much of your opinion here strikes me as bearing false witness.

There is more to this story, and you really don't have a grasp about the differences between music for liturgy, and music for evangelistic purposes. And then to add to that your faulty analysis about being out of touch...while not recognizing how he has indeed related to the millionsof diverse pilgrims.

And if you don't care for the office of the Pope, that is a subject outside the scope of these forums. There is much written here that simply isn't on the same page.

Peace,
Nick

[Don_Z]

Nick,

I apologize if we seem to be running around in circles here.

The RCC and the Protestant Church do not agree on many things. I do not want to keep this conversation going because I am concerned that we will only end up hurting each other with what we will say.

We obviously have different opinions on this matter and I think we should simply back away now and leave it be.

Peace,

Don

[NickAlexander]

Don, I accept your apology. If I offended you in like manner, please accept mine.

I do want to be clear, however.

It is one thing to look upon the papal office, and have theological disagreements with how the Roman Catholic Church had interpreted Scriptures to come up with the doctrine it now has (which, let's be honest, is far different from what a lot of non-Catholics presume it to be... journalists included).

It is another thing to taint a person's character, painting with a broad brush, basing your thesis upon a newspaper article (which, we can agree, can be faulty), and your perceptions of the day-to-day life of this person, from afar.

It is of the second issue I take umbridge with. I do not expect much anybody else here to hold the same theological convictions I have, and I do wish to be tolerant of our differences.

It may be that one day, our liturgies would be purged of anything modern-sounding. But this lone article was published years ago, and I can attest that nothing has been done to eradicate liturgies from modern musical elements. It's a long, long road from the pope, to the cardinals, to the bishops, to the local parish priest, not to mention the politicking behind liturgical music publishers and differences in language and style. Even for those few places where there has been a change (eradicating "Yahweh" from texts, for example), it does not change the fact that sometimes, a music minister and corresponding priest would be oblivious to the pope's call to action, and nothing would be changed.

It is far, far, more complicated than the discussion on this board gives credit to, and it is in this manner that it felt right to step in and object. In the meantime, whereever God has been blessing you, may He continue to allow His graces to bless you and your family, in abundance.

Nick

[sycamoredave]

Nick:

It has been my experience that the more complicated we make things, the more we distance ourselves from Christ. This site is no exception. When we get buried in the complexities of human preferences and traditions, we step away from the pure message of God's love that makes us one. There is no condescension in Christ. There should be none in His Church, but unfortunately that is part of the human condition. Please accept my apologies if you took offense at my comments. I certainly intended no harm, and fully respect your right to worship and serve in your traditions. I would hope you are of the same cloth with respect to mine.

Blessings...
Dave

[El Ben]

So, in a COMPLETELY unforeseen development, I will be assisting a local Catholic parish develop their LifeTeen program. I will be co-leading music with a local worship leader. Neither of us are Catholic.

This should be interesting.

***Update*** I'm currently learning the Mass of Creation. Good stuff. ***Update***

[NickAlexander]

Congrats, El Ben!!

If you have any questions regarding how things are done in the liturgy, or for best songs that fit a specific theme or liturgical feast day, do not hesitate to PM me. I'm pretty good at this stuff.

LifeTeen, for those who don't know, was partially founded by Dove Award winner Tom Booth, who co-wrote the mid-90s Kathy Troccoli song "I Will Choose Christ." (Booth's co-partner, it should be noted, without going into detail, has scandalized himself and tainted the ministry... but the positive fruits of LifeTeen have lived on).

It was also positively written about in the Appendix of Sally Morgenthaler's _exceptional_ opus, "Worship Evangelism".

It should also be noted, if you are not aware, that the Catholic church is undergoing a significant liturgical change within the next year, updating its English responses so as to reflect all the more accurately (and beautifully, imo), what the Latin text said.

Peace, and Congrats again. This is a big deal.
Nick

[stephaniesherie]

I've been Catholic & played for masses for years. First this isn't the Pope speaking infallibility, it's actually just his preferences. It's sort of like when a new President take office and the singers they bring to the White House are their favorites.

I'm sure the sacred music lovers are very glad to have a chant loving Pope because they feel a more formal music environment is needed and wanted. There are some Priests that believe this way and the people they hire reflect this preference. Most Catholic churches I know are somewhere in between. They usually can't afford the highly trained organist and cantors who really need a very high level of expertise and knowledge to pull of this music well. It's more than just three chords and a guitar, no offense. So, many masses of folky type music which was very big after VAtican II, which was a reform in the Church that promoted the music of the area and congregational singing.

There are some Catholics who are very loyal to the Pope's preferences just because he is the Pope. Interesting how the article mentioned some composers will be out of luck, so to speak. haha. I just went to a workshop because there will a be new translation of the mass as Advent. There were all types of new masses represented, and so, I don't think it's a church-wide thing but a happy bandwagon for the sacred music lovers to jump on.

As the article said, Benedict is very different than John Paul II on this topic.

I hope that helps!