Why Men Hate Going to Church Comment

[twc_admin]

Hey Ya'll -

My sister forwarded this to me, from a friend ... I thought it would be a great thread to feature this month ... see below:

Note: This is not MY OWN writing - this is copied from the person who sent it to me ... I'm pasting it below for discussion.

I read this comment from David Murrow, author of the book "Why Men Hate Going To Church". I'm curious on your thoughts on this. Just wondering....


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I was standing in church a couple of weeks ago when these lyrics popped up on the screen:
Your love is extravagant


Your friendship, it is intimate


I feel I'm moving to the rhythm of Your grace


Your fragrance is intoxicating in our secret place


Your love is extravagant

Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin


No greater love have I ever known

You considered me a friend


Capture my heart again

When I saw the phrases "moving to the rhythm" and "spread wide" I just about fainted. Lyrics like these leave little doubt: today's praise music targets love-starved women. (Gals buy about 75% of the praise and worship CDs) I don't know any man who follows Christ for his "intoxicating fragrance."

Meanwhile, the masculine hymns of a generation ago have been banned in most churches. We no longer sing of battle, blood or sacrifice. Onward, Christian Soldiers is forbidden. Rise Up O Men of God has been gender neutralized. We've retired the action songs and replaced them with relationship songs.

There's nothing wrong with worship songs that evoke strong emotion. I'm not afraid to admit that just last Sunday I was moved to tears by a worship song I heard in church. But we cross the line when we imagine Jesus as our lover rather than our leader.


WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[El Ben]

I'm officially bracing myself. When you mentioned this at lunch, it sparked a mental debate with myself that is STILL going on. Thanks, Fred, for firing up the voices in my head, as if they don't bother me enough already!

[twc_admin]

can't wait for the voices to be put onto the forum!

[russhutto]

But we cross the line when we imagine Jesus as our lover rather than our leader.

I don't agree. I think Jesus is both.

Check out this passage in 1 John 3 (16-20 NIV)

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence

20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

I see Jesus not only loving us, but backing it up with action: laying down His life for us. So, if we truly love others it will look like this. If we're not laying our lives down for one another, we're not truly loving. And, if LAYING YOUR LIFE DOWN for a cause (brother/sister) is not fighting the good fight, then I don't know what is.

I see where the author of that thought is coming from, but I don't agree with it. I think we do have to be careful to not paint a wimpy, sappy, mushy picture of Jesus as a leader. But as a servant leader Jesus didn't come to kick in the doors, kick butt, and lead a political revolution, per se. He came to bridge the gap, to cross the chasm, to extend the arms of love to mankind. He fought an even greater battle than any action flick or war movie we've ever seen, He layed down His life, denying the flesh and submitting to the will of His Father. All of this He did, BECAUSE He was an expression of love to us from the Father.

I also see myself as part of the BRIDE of Christ. I am and will be loved by Jesus. He is the lover of lovers. I have no problem with that, even as a man filled with Madden playing, UFC loving, mythbuster watching testosterone.

Jesus is both LOVER & LEADER.

I think men hate going to church because they're lame. Just kidding. I think it's all in perceptions. Men perceive "religion" to be a crutch. Men are more independent than women. Women go to church more because it fulfills a lot of different needs in their lives. Men don't like to go, because they don't like to admit they have needs.

I personally don't think it has anything to do with the song selection. Well, at least not at the deep core of the issue. I think we could do a better job of painting pictures of God's love and His fight for our love, whether in song, message, studies, and even our actions as the "church"

I don't know any man who follows Christ for his "intoxicating fragrance."

P.S. I think if we did a better job at teaching "worship" and how it looked/looks Biblically then people would understand that this isn't a reference to following Jesus based on his cologne, but to the sweet smell of praise and a pleasing sacrifice in the place of worship! Haha.

[SaintLewis]

An incredible/terrible book I once read by Michael S Horton called "In the Face of God" is almost entirely about this subject.

[El Ben]

You know, I've been thinking about this, and I think I've come to an interesting conclusion. I'm just throwing this out there, so don't set me down in stone on this one:

First, I'd like to tackle on of the underlying issues before heading right into the whole"men hate going to church" thing.I've been trying to approach this situation from the perspective of a non-believer, but then I got to thinking...As a nonbeliever, what right would I have to criticize the worship practices of an organization I'm not even a part of, and as a believer, what business would I have in letting a non-believer's opinion change how I worship corporately? Either:

A.) My corporate worship experience is outreach-based with the intent of reaching lost people.

or

B.) My corporate worship experience is meant to be a time of Body ministry and edification. (This is my personal preference.)



Now, to move on to the issue at hand. The issue, I think, that Fred's friend brings up is valid. In many ways, the church has been emasculated over the years. This has been, in my opinion, been due to a lack of godly, motivated men, and ultimately, the breakdown of the family unit. With the divorce rate higher (in most cases) in the Church than in the secular world, the traditional family model has become a thing of the past.

Reality finds many young men starving for the attention and love of their father rather than empowered by his approval. They lack confidence, are sometimes insecure in their masculinity (which explains the rampant promiscuity increases from the last generation to the current one), and struggle with the mechanics of loving and receiving love from a strong, caring father/mentoring figure that they have lacked for most of their life.

This translates into some difficulty when it comes to having a relationship with a God who manifested himself in the form of a man, and the fact that this man chose to die instead of fight back because he supposedly "loved everyone." To a man who is uncomfortable with (due to the consistent lack of) the idea of being loved by another man, this creates a similar reaction as to a situation in which he would rebuff the amorous advances of another man.

It also doesn't help that the image we have (thanks to the arts) of Christ is a pale, thin, effiminate man constantly depicted in his underwear or hugging a baby sheep. This isn't quite the image of the tall (Galileans were among the tallest Judeans), suntanned (they were also dark-skinned), and well-built (from his strenuous work as a carpenter) man's man that Jesus probably was. One possible reason for the emasculated church is this skewed mental image of Jesus. To be blunt, most unsaved people probably view Jesus as a well-intentioned, weak, cowardly man who would rather hide behind "universal love" than to fight for what he believed in.

I've pretty much wracked my brain right now. I'll write more later.

[russhutto]

Good points, Ben.

I also believe that there is a pretty wide gap between those who HAVE experienced a strong, loving father-figure's love/approval/affirmation in their lives and those who have not.

I can see even in my own personal experiences how easy it is to overlook this huge difference in the way we relate to God, others, and the world around us based on how we were/are loved by a positive male father/mentor figure.

[chipshot0701]

My take on the lyrics to this song are simply this: The author has been moved by the love of the holy spirit and is feeling led by it. And wanted all of us to share in it.
I'm a simple kind of guy and I like to keep things simple
The lyrics and music for this song came to me instantaneously and I was able to compose it in less then 10 minutes. I don't take the credit for this as I was led by the Holy Spirit and I am just his messenger.

The Greatest Gift by mike carter

(chorus)
The greatest gift God ever gave me
is Love sweet love and the wisdom to share it
with all my friends and all my family
and all of those who come around me!
(verse)
God gave me the light to see,
plants, birds and fish in the sea
he gave me sunny days to watch the clouds make faces
and sunny days to use imagination.

He gave me words to use to express my feelings
miracles to keep me believin'
love and friendship and holy places
and a wonderful world with wide open spaces

but the greatest gift God ever gave me
is Love sweet love and the wisdom to share it
with all my friends and all my family
and all of those who end up around me!

[SaintLewis]

Originally Posted by SaintLewis

An incredible/terrible book I once read by Michael S Horton called "In the Face of God" is almost entirely about this subject.

Just to note, I wasn't necessarily suggesting you read that book, unless you don't mind being angry as often as you're challenged/encouraged.

I really like Mark Driscoll's quotes on this: "I’ll be happy when we have more than just prom songs to Jesus sung by some effeminate guy on an acoustic guitar offered as mainstream worship music. He's got a point.
"It's hard to worship a guy who you can beat up" Driscoll says.
I agree with him, I think.

[jim_snedeker]

Need help selecting more guy type songs? Don't forget the various PK conference music recordings.

Thanks for all your insights!