Is worshipping with music authentic?

[yod1948]

This might be better in a different thread since we're getting of the topic of music. If you want to start another thread, I'll join you there.

To say He wasn't talking about knowledge seems incorrect from the context.

Quote:
22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth,
Now the "has now come" does correct me on which side of eternity was being refered to. I was wrong <- not so hard to say afterall. But I don't think you can read "know" and "do not know" coupled with a "Yet" and say Jesus was not talking about knowledge.

The Samaritans had built their own version of The Temple in Jerusalem. They had full knowledge of "how" to worship the God of Israel so there was no lack of "truth" when it came to an intellectual understanding of facts.

It's a very hebraic idiom to say we do something "in truth" when speaking of sincerity vs insincerity. It has nothing to do with knowledge. The Samaritans were missing a sincere relationship to the God of Israel.

Example: if I say, "I love my wife in truth" it doesn't simply mean that I have true factual knowledge about her. It means I sincerely love her.

Also for the record I wasn't spouting inaccurate/useless doctine.

Please don't receive offense because I didn't intend that. I was using your post as an example of something that has been taught throughout church history which is missing the point of what a jewish man was saying to other jews.

We can interpret jews speaking to jews through a greek philosophical understanding and (innocently) miss the point quite easily

I'm only saying that we have been doing so for a long time....please don't take it personally.

.I do believe we can understand the scriptures, exactly as they were intended. Taking the case of non-biblical writings as an example. Do you say we can't understand what anyone was trying to write if the text is over 10 years old? 100 years? 1,000 years? Or how different of a culture would it need to be can Europeans and North Americans understand each others writing? South Amereicans? Asians? Middle Easterners? I do think that a study of the "authors" context would be very useful perhaps even essential but I wouldn't agree that it is impossible.

I wouldn't say it's impossible to get the general idea of a topic using lots of information and applying contextual knowledge, but I am saying that it is impossible to get accurate and complete knowledge apart from the original author speaking to the original audience in the original language and culture.

Example: For a Hawaiian to completely understand a snow-ball fight, he'd have to understand what snow is. Without some concept of ice falling from the sky, how would he understand it as well as an Eskimo?

[travisvwright]

Originally Posted by yod1948

Example: For a Hawaiian to completely understand a snow-ball fight, he'd have to understand what snow is. Without some concept of ice falling from the sky, how would he understand it as well as an Eskimo?

I agree here and was responding to simon's remark that paraphrased said, the Hawaiian could never understand a snowball fight, When he said

Originally Posted by simon

we cannot ever understand scripture "as the author intended".

Yes it would take some additional explanation/education for the Hawaiian. But with it he could understand a snowball fight.

Originally Posted by yod1948

If you want to start another thread, I'll join you there.

Not today I think you've done a very good job of explaining. Thank you for the education.

[simon]

I'm interested in the distinction between rational and emotional worship. Sticking specifically to musical worship, although I agree with Travis that we should worship with both our head and our heart, I have seldom been able to find the balance between the two. Much contemporary worship seems too much weighted towards the heart and traditional hymns towards the head. This is most transparent when comparing the lyrics between hymns and songs. I openly cringe at some of the song lyrics that get repeated ad nauseum! I have also seen this mismatch amongest worshippers of different ages with younger people seeming to quite like the emotional roller coaster aspect and older people being a bit more thinking.

Again maybe it comes down to personality and life story and "where people are at" however it does present an interesting problem for the worship leader who needs to cater for the whole congregation. The only answer I can think of is to have separate services but maybe someone else can think of a different way?

---->8-----
PS I am keen to take yod1948 up on some of his comments however agree that a new thread would be best. As I am a newbie could someone suggest a forum for this theological discussion?

[yod1948]

Fred has seemingly quite wisely decided not to include a theological forum with so many different denominations of WLers represented here.

If it pertains to the theology of worship then it seems appropriate. If it isn't, then I have no idea where or if we should discuss whatever is on your mind.