Secular music in worship

[Don_Z]

What I like about this particular forum is that there is wisdom in the posters here and that no matter what we discuss, we seem to understand that we all serve God and are not here to step into a gladiator arena against one another.

Perceptions are difficult to guage over the threads we use here. I am grateful that all of you are so open to conservative rants from people like myself and that you also continue to show me what you are doing to win hearts and minds for Jesus.

That is really what matters... In the end it is ALL about Him...

My tone comes off a little hard at times. I try to bring a conservative perspective in so we always see the 'Lighthouse' or beacon. I respect all of you and will always mention what I see as red or yellow cards so we can discuss them.

I think that discussion helps all of us solidify why we do what we do...

God bless,

Don

[christiansax]

I think we should all be really careful about playing secular songs in worship service. IMHO songs are all spiritual, and at some point, the writer has an inspiration when writing these songs. In the Bible, the Lord Jesus talks about us either with God or with the enemy, there are no gray area. So, songs are also being made just like that, its either dedicated to God or to someone else.

I'm not saying that we don't play secular songs, nope. I do play a lot of secular songs. However, I don't recommend playing these songs during worship service. If these songs were written with God as the inspiration, and Glorify God Himself, that's fine, but, we all know that secular songs are written not for God.

We cannot offer things that has been offered to someone else. Would you give a gift to your child that wasn't really meant for him? As a Dad, NEVER.

Let us also remember what the Lord said on Matthew 22:21 "Render to Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's, and to God the things that are God's"

God bless you all.....

[milepost13]

Originally Posted by christiansax

I think we should all be really careful about playing secular songs in worship service. IMHO songs are all spiritual, and at some point, the writer has an inspiration when writing these songs. In the Bible, the Lord Jesus talks about us either with God or with the enemy, there are no gray area. So, songs are also being made just like that, its either dedicated to God or to someone else.

I'm not saying that we don't play secular songs, nope. I do play a lot of secular songs. However, I don't recommend playing these songs during worship service. If these songs were written with God as the inspiration, and Glorify God Himself, that's fine, but, we all know that secular songs are written not for God.

Question for you. If using "secular" songs in a worship gathering is wrong because "We cannot offer (God) things that has been offered to someone else" how do you justify listening to this same music outside of Sunday morning if God requires that every aspect of our lives be given to him in an act of worship? My ears and voice were given to me to use to glorify God...if I can't listen to and/or sing a song on Sunday morning because that song does not glorify God, how can I listen to and/or sing that same song on Monday morning?

I'm sincerely asking.

Originally Posted by christiansax

We cannot offer things that has been offered to someone else. Would you give a gift to your child that wasn't really meant for him? As a Dad, NEVER.

I've done this many times! My wife and I gladly accept hand-me-down clothes for my daughter, and we're guilty of giving our daughter used toys to play with that we purchased at a thrift store or from Ebay.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the story of God is a story of redemption! Praise God that He can use something that was meant for evil for His glory (Genesis 50:20)! Otherwise, I'd still be on my way to hell.

Nate

[christiansax]

Originally Posted by milepost13

Question for you. If using "secular" songs in a worship gathering is wrong because "We cannot offer (God) things that has been offered to someone else" how do you justify listening to this same music outside of Sunday morning if God requires that every aspect of our lives be given to him in an act of worship? My ears and voice were given to me to use to glorify God...if I can't listen to and/or sing a song on Sunday morning because that song does not glorify God, how can I listen to and/or sing that same song on Monday morning?

That's a good question. However, the purpose of this thread is to know if its reasonable to play secular songs in a service, not to listen to songs outside the church. But I will still answer that good question.

We all know that we are not perfect, and somehow its our nature as a mere man, not to be perfect. Yes, the Lord asked us to offer to Him our whole life, but we just cannot, except for some.

During the time of the Lord here, he taught about divorse, and according to

Matthew 19:1-8

"1 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

In our society, getting a divorce is normal, why? Because we made it so, do you think its acceptable to God, No. But we do it anyways, because of the hardness of our hearts.

God's worship service is perfect in any form, but we should not defile it and turn it into something we want to be. That is not ours to decide. Our lives as Christians are already messed up so much that God is the only one holding it to keep it in place. Let us not do it on His worship service.

You said, you do give your child a gift that came from ebay or wherever, I do that too, but only for myself. BUT, that is not the same with God.

In Genesis, when Cain offered his offerings, why do you think God did not accept it? Because there is no blood? Partly yes, but if we will just look at it the way it was, remember that the Lord instructed the Jews to have a Grain Offering which is also acceptable to God. But why do you think Cain's offering was not accepted....here's the answer

Genesis 4:7
"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

God bless you brother....

[christiansax]

I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and for us to answer this question correctly we need to base our answers from the Bible not from our own opinion.

It is written in 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

All our questions will be answered from His word. Why is it that the Lord was very strict about the tabernacle, that everything in it should be according to what He say, and according to His measurement, deisgn. Everything is detailed upto the last small piece. Why?

When He died, He tore that veil, for us to have access to our Father in Heaven. The Lord said, God is spirit and we should worship Him in spirit and in truth. That doesn't mean that we make our own way of worshiping Him. Its not all about us, its all about Him, its not we deicide how to worship Him, He already instructed us what to do.

Leviticus 11:44
For I am the LORD your God. You shall therefore consecrate yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy.

All of us are guilty on this, but that doesn't mean that we will take for granted what we offer Him, moreso His worship service.

[milepost13]

I'm trying to find the answer to my question somewhere in there...help?

Nate

[travisvwright]

Christiansax,
Although I think I'm on you're side of this discussion (mostly from a "it's not perfectly clear so why risk it." standpoint) I do think that you need to go back and re-check the "for or against" scripture. In that scripture the disciples tell Jesus of a man casting out demons who was not an apostle of Christ. So they tell him to stop. Jesus says, "Whoever is not against us is for us." Which seems to be the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make. It's Mark 9:38-41.

[christiansax]

Originally Posted by travisvwright

Christiansax,
Although I think I'm on you're side of this discussion (mostly from a "it's not perfectly clear so why risk it." standpoint) I do think that you need to go back and re-check the "for or against" scripture. In that scripture the disciples tell Jesus of a man casting out demons who was not an apostle of Christ. So they tell him to stop. Jesus says, "Whoever is not against us is for us." Which seems to be the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make. It's Mark 9:38-41.

Thanks Travis for bringing up that point. However, those people are casting out demons in our Lord's name. The works are still under His authority, but what we are talking about here is if we are going to let secular songs be played in the Lord's Worship Service. Secular songs were never made under His name it will never will be, that's why I completely disagree. If they want to hear secular songs, they can go to restaurants, bars or somewhere where they can listen to the songs, not in the House of God.

Do you remember the story of the Lord Jesus driving away merchants in Matthew 21:12-16 how he got mad and drove out allthose who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of moneychangers and the seats of those who sold doves.

If the Lord got mad about what we do around His temple, how much more if we do our own thing inside of it, and do our own way of service not His way.

Think about it bros. and sisters....just think about it.

May God bless us all....

[christiansax]

Originally Posted by Don_Z

I am not trying to accuse anyone here of 'not being a good WL". I hope that it is not coming across that way. What I am trying to do is make us really think hard about what waters we stick our toes into in order to make the world view or better put those that only see the world view see us as something we are not.

John 3:20-21

20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

I think that in our efforts to shine light into the darkness, we sometimes overstep ourselves and use weapons of our enemies. This is not a righteous act. To take up the sword of your enemy to strike to show them that you have strength of arms so that they will respect you and so follow you does not make you a winner of people for Christ. It makes you a follower of the path of darkness.

We are trying to show those that are lost that the path we have chosen truly is different and that this difference has meaning... ie. merit. If we do not trust in the Lord enough to give us the strength to open up the heart and minds of those that we are wanting to reach, then it is we that are lacking in our faith.

I think that we send out the wrong message to people when we use secular music in our worship. I believe that we show that we do not have the fortitude to trust in God and honor Him fully. We cop out and give into the lowest common denominator because we do not trust God enough to give us the strength to carry through the good fight. We show those in the congregation of unbelievers that we may have holes in our own armor and they can exploit it.

You may disagree with me if it pleases you. I am but one voice among many here. There is a spiritual battle going on today that we have to be aware of and if we allow ourselves to slip in complacency we will find ourselves in a very tight spot.

I bring these points up to plant seeds, if you will... Pray about it. I think the answer that we seek needs come from God because we all have a different perspective on what our mission is and how we are to perform our task for Him.

Blessings to you all,

Don

I praise God for your wisdom Don....

Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction."

[jeffallen]

This is all really interesting. I will say that we use songs that people with other world views have written in our services on occasion. I wouldn't say we use them as corporate worship songs but I would say that we worship God when we play them. We generally use them as a sermon illustration. The same way we might use a video from Worship House Media or an object like a baseball bat to illustrate a point...we may sing "I Won't Back Down" by Tom Petty to paint a picture of how the message may apply in real life.