Average Tenure of a WL

[Sunray]

Hello all,

My observation in the charismatic/full-gospel/penticostal environment (take your choice) is that it can be a real difficult balance trying to bring forth what the Holy Spirit puts on your heart, and the pastor's desire for strict time constraints. Not seeing praise and worship as simply a few songs to warm up the congregation before the pastor's message, but rather, as a time to minister to God before the congregation, drawing them into His presence, it's often hard when the pastor closes things down before we get there. That pastor vs worship leader tension in many cases leads to comparatively short tenures for worship leaders. I am married to a sensative psalmist who led worship at our church for 10 years - she lasted because she was submissive, but it was very hard on us. She finally stepped down and got involved with other areas of ministry at the church, but three worship leaders since then have only lasted 1-2 years each.

[russhutto]

Hey Sunray great observation.

I used to really struggle with that back and forth, pastor/wl tension myself.

Until I moved to a church that totally does "church" differently. Oh, we have a Sunday morning gathering. We have music, we have a message, we give, we pray, etc. etc.

But, we just do it differently. Gone are the days of our primary gathering being about trying to cram every spiritual experience we know into 2 hours. We understand that primarily (here in America) that a lot of times Sunday is looked at (even by outsiders) as a church day. So we use that momentum to reach outsiders. Our primary gathering isn't about feeding the flock until they burst. It's about teaching them to feed themselves and encouraging them to help feed others.

Because of that we don't have long "worship" experiences every Sunday. We do very practical, thematic worship presentations that engage people and hopefully move them to action. (and a commitment to our starting point and small group experiences)...

I grew up in the charismatic/pentecostal arena and let me be the first one to tell you, that it didn't matter if someone prophesied for 20 minutes straight and then we sang spontaneous free worship for an hour and then we had a soul stirring mesage, no one really lived differently. No one was changed.

Sure there were people giving their lives to the Lord, but no one really changed. They just became more churchy.

All that to say, that I believe if a lead pastor and worship leader can actually be on the same page about the PURPOSE of a primary gathering, then BIG things will happen.

I think it's one of Andy Stanley's 7 Principles for Effective Ministry...

If you clarify the win, you'll have a better chance of achieving the win. People need to know WHY we have services. And the beauty of it all is that those reasons may differ from church to church. And that's ok!

But I see too many pastors who believe that the service is all about the message from God that they're supposed to deliver each week with the music leading up to that point. And then the worship leader thinks it's about the "experience" before the throne each week with the message reinforcing that.

Get on the same page and things will go a lot more smoothly.

[milepost13]

I was worship leader at my first church for two years. I left, although they would have probably kept me on for several more years. I've been at my current church for nearly two years, and have no intentions of leaving any time soon.

Nate

[Sunray]

[QUOTE=blindeyesopen;8890] ... So we use that momentum to reach outsiders. Our primary gathering isn't about feeding the flock until they burst. It's about teaching them to feed themselves and encouraging them to help feed others.

[That's so good!]

... I grew up in the charismatic/pentecostal arena and let me be the first one to tell you, that it didn't matter if someone prophesied for 20 minutes straight and then we sang spontaneous free worship for an hour and then we had a soul stirring mesage, no one really lived differently. No one was changed. ...

[That's not really been my experience. I've found that when a church focuses on intimately knowing God nd people are really seeking Him, experiencing God through worship and the gifts of the Spirit is usually really motivating for changed lives - I'm sure that isn't the case always and everywhere, but free worship and the sense of God's presence is really encouraging, which to me is what church is about - encouragement in the midst of trying to change.]

All that to say, that I believe if a lead pastor and worship leader can actually be on the same page about the PURPOSE of a primary gathering, then BIG things will happen...

[I think you hit on the answer there - often the pastors and worship leaders agree on ultimate goals but have different visions for the means to get there.]

Ray

[twc_admin]

Ray and Russ -

Great discussion. I have a big, hearty AMEN for Russ, too. Ray, I'm so grateful that you seemed to receive what Russ was saying, and even more grateful to know that you've seen some genuine, authentic change in the hearts of the people there.

I have to say, though - that it is VERY EASY to blame the Senior Pastor for "shutting down the worship" ... when actually, many times we need to acknowledge that rather than shutting it down, he/she CONTINUES the worship with the teaching and receiving of the Word.

We are still worshiping - but maybe not just in song or spontaneous expressions. Maybe our worship journey continues, it's just through the bringing of the Word.

Too many times, we put such a huge (and erroneous) separation between the "singing worship" and the "preaching Word".

[Sunray]

I guess I did imply that, that the rest of the worship after the music is less important. Fred, I don't believe that, and I do know that pastors have a big responsibility to balance it all. Guess I just wish there could be more flexibility, and when the Spirit is clearly moving, so to speak, we could linger once in a while. I believe that would prepare the hearts of the congregation even more. But your point is well taken.

[twc_admin]

Hey Sunray,
Well, I totally understand - 'cause I've certainly been there and done that.

I've been on the other side, too - where for whatever reason, the Spirit just is NOT moving .. the people are clearly NOT going there, for whatever reason ... and you are just BEGGING the Pastor to come on up and teach ... you know, you have that feeling that you've "gone as far as you are going to go", and they (the pastors) keep looking up at you like "do another song, do another song" .. like, c'mon, the anointing is not there yet ... and you're thinking "i'm dying up here!" .. hahahaha .. ever felt that way?

[stephen_can_man]

You know guys, I was raised A.G. and all of my family is Pentecostal, but, I guess I am "spiritless." When I finish a song I'm done. I don't linger. Not that I never do, but once I said what I wanted to say, I don't feel the need to repeat it. We usually do that in the chorus of the song anyway. I just never really understood why we had to sing the chorus over, and over, and over again. I always thought to myself, I think He heard us the first 3 times we said it and I doubt He will feel we are more sincere by the 15th time (or that I will feel I am more sincere) I realize how cynical that sounds but I might as well be honest right?

[russhutto]

it seems as though we've drifted from the main aim of this conversation:

average tenure of a WL

my fault.

I was at my first church family for 11 years (including volunteer, part-time, and full-time WLing) and this august will mark 2 years in my current church family.

carry on.

[hiddentalent]

I believe that you are right. The positions that I held only lasted 4 to 5 years or less. These were part time positions.