Mics for our X-mas play?

[cyrax037]

My church is doing a Christmas play, and Micing has been an issue for me.
Its takeing place on the stage in the recently remodeled fellowship hall, for our new contemporary service once a month. The room has its own sound system now, and the stage is very small, about 20 feet side to side, and close to 8 feet front to back. We tried to use condenser mics to pick up the dialog and singing vocals, but its just not enough. You can barely hear dialog, and singing you can't hear at all from most of the singers, they just can't over power the music. We really need wireless mics for all the lead parts(we have 2 mics, a lav, and a low key headset, one transmitter pack, and 2 receivers, one for the sanctuary and one for the new fellowship hall) but we'd need atleast 3 more systems to mic them all. Its WAY WAY out of the budget to BUY more, and my pastor is suppose to be talking to the owner of one of the local music/audio shops who installed our sanctuary system, to see if there is any kind of deal they can work out. But what I was wondering is if anyone had any other ideas that could help? I'm also waiting to hear back from a couple people, to see if maybe the local high school can lend us a few, since most of the important school people go to my church. But if it comes down that we won't be able to get wireless lav/headset mics, I don't have a clue what to do?



Also, one more question to add, giving the option which would be better to use, lav, or a headset? Personally I might go with lav, I think it would be easier, and I've liked the sound the lav mic has over the headset my pastor recently switched to. I've heard that the headsets are suppose to be better in sound quality, but when I first started, he was using an awkward headset that was really noticeable and kept falling off, and the wind noise was horrible. I advised him to go with a lapel, and it was 100% better, it sounded great, no breathing into it or anything. He recently got a new headmounted one tho, one of the small, low key types. (I dunno why he did this, it certainly was not on my recommendation) but I'm not fond of how it sounds. The low end is VERY strong in it, even when I turn the low end all the way down on the board. It also sounded horrible during the contemp service, I dunno why, but it was bad. I'm just not fond of it really. Perhaps a different one would be better, but I don't like this one.

[efrisch]

Personally, I'm a fan of a low key headset over a traditional lav for almost any application. They pick up consistently no matter how the user adjusts their head & body, and they tend to have a much better gain to feedback ratio (which is a big deal when you're working in a theater environment with a lot of mics).

It sounds like trying to rent some gear might be a good option for you... most sound companies have a stock of wireless theater-type mics and receivers for rent if your school option doesn't work out.

Another option to look at (for purchase or rental) would be boundary mics. I've used them with great success for a lot of theater, choral applications over the years. There are a lot of options out there, but my favorite is the Crown PCC-160. Given that your stage isn't very deep, they'd probably work really well for you... three spaced evenly across the front of the stage would get it done.

[cyrax037]

Originally Posted by efrisch

Personally, I'm a fan of a low key headset over a traditional lav for almost any application. They pick up consistently no matter how the user adjusts their head & body, and they tend to have a much better gain to feedback ratio (which is a big deal when you're working in a theater environment with a lot of mics).

It sounds like trying to rent some gear might be a good option for you... most sound companies have a stock of wireless theater-type mics and receivers for rent if your school option doesn't work out.

Another option to look at (for purchase or rental) would be boundary mics. I've used them with great success for a lot of theater, choral applications over the years. There are a lot of options out there, but my favorite is the Crown PCC-160. Given that your stage isn't very deep, they'd probably work really well for you... three spaced evenly across the front of the stage would get it done.

Interesting! How do you keep those from picking up and amplifying the music anymore? Thats been one of the issue with the condensers, like when we had our small choir, we used two condensers, spaced about 2 1/3-3 feet apart, less then 2 feet from the first row, and if we where lucky enough to have a second row, about 4 feet from them, and they barely picked up any vocals over the organ, which is taped into a separate speaker system them the board, so I can't control it. I got ALOT of organ in the mics, but not much vocals, which obviously is an issue with the vocalists aswell. That's one issue with the girl who is staring in the play, she doesn't sing out very well, and the kids who have speaking roles, talk very soft LOL.

[efrisch]

Ah, so you've got organ speakers behind your stage? That makes things considerably more difficult! From my experience, that would limit you to very close micing... because as you've already mentioned, any kind of mic with a wide pickup is going to get at least as much of the organ as your intended source. That really kills gain/feedback ratios, too!

[cyrax037]

Originally Posted by efrisch

Ah, so you've got organ speakers behind your stage? That makes things considerably more difficult! From my experience, that would limit you to very close micing... because as you've already mentioned, any kind of mic with a wide pickup is going to get at least as much of the organ as your intended source. That really kills gain/feedback ratios, too!

Oh, no no, the organ in in the sanctuary, the stage is in the fellowship hall. (Sry, I should have separated the bit about the choir, and the play as two separate location with the same mics) We do however have speakers for our sound system down there, which will be playing the music.(The play's music is from a CD, not live, like would be with a larger HS play or something)

[efrisch]

Great, thanks for the clarification... as long as your speakers are in front of the stage, the boundary mics would probably work well (they pick up everything in front of them, nothing behind). They'll have a much wider pickup than a normal pencil-style condenser. Of course, getting your actors to speak up a little bit will help too, since you mentioned that that's been an issue!

[cyrax037]

Yeah, defiantly! You know kids tho HAHA.(Most of the actors are 12 and under HAHA)

It sounds to me like the boundary mics that your talking about should have been what we got instead of condenser mics in the first place.

How are they on the sides? When we had our choir, or choir section had the organ speakers on the sides of the room, about 10-15 feet on either side. I knew for awhile the the condenser mics where probably not the right choice, but I had 0 input in on the decisions, cuz it was all done way before I became the church sound technician LOL.

[amprodirect]

Eric's comments about the consistent distance from source to mic is certainly one great reason to go with a headset mic. One. Another reason folks prefer the headset is proximity which plays into what Eric said. Not only is the distance consistent, the distant is far less than a typical lavaliere. This could be contributing to your low end response that you don't like. Often times we will go with an omnidirection mic to avoid this, you will get the boominess with a directional mic (cardiod).

Cyrax, where about are you located?

[cyrax037]

I'm in the bootheel of Mo.(a place where technology is 50 years behind the rest of the world HAHA,JK.)

The director(who is the school librarian) is trying everything she can to get some from the school, I hope she can come through. The place that I talked to doesn't often rent this type of equipment, the owner said to have my pastor call him, but I dunno if he has or not. But as I mentioned before, several teachers, as well as the school administrators, football coach, ect go to me church, so I hope we can come through on that!

[efrisch]

Originally Posted by cyrax037

It sounds to me like the boundary mics that your talking about should have been what we got instead of condenser mics in the first place.

...probably not. That type of microphone really only works well when you want to pick up the entire field of sound on the stage. The events that I use them for are school concerts and dramas where I wanted to pick up everything. I suspect that if you tried them with your choir, you'd have the same reamping problem you're having now (probably even worse!) A normal, fairly directional, small diaphragm condenser mic sounds right for that application to me. Maybe if you can tell us more specifically what you're using, we can help you a little more with that problem as well?