Younger musicians on the worship team?

[Jeremiah]

God has been working some changes in our church worship team lately. In the last 12 months or so we've gone through some major changes. Thankfully no one left in anger or over personality conflicts (that stuff is no fun). I don't know all the reasons but I believe part of it was God nudging me out of the mindset of building a church band and into the business of growing people.

So right now I'm down to three. Myself (singer/guitar), my wife (trapped as a singer forever muahahaha) and the guy who used to play bass who is now learning drums (and doing great). There are plenty of positions to fill and not enough talent available to fill it.

Last week a younger guy that I've known (of) for a while came up to talk to me. We talked briefly and he told me that he's in Jazz at school. I really don't know much about it but he told me he plays Electric guitar there and has been practicing regularly. We really do need more musicians on the team and here's a young man saying "use me!". But I have a few things running through my head. I'll touch on them briefly.

He's young.
He's somewhere between 12 and 14. At first that seems a little young to me but I guess that's about the same age I was when our then worship leader brought me in to play drums. It's also inline with where I feel God is pushing me in regards to training and raising up new leaders.

Ya but electric?
I'm really specific in who I like to have play electric. I prefer someone who's been playing since they were 3, plays in their spare time, was in a garage band through high school, took classical guitar in college and spent 3 years in a metal band. But those guys are kinda hard to find. :rolleyes: *aghem* on a more serious note, right now we really need someone to play bass. I've found it's usually a good place to start for newer musicians and can really help them grow. Uh, any thoughts along those lines?

Is he any good?
This is the tough part. I really believe that some God given talent is a must. If he doesn't have a natural aptitude then it probably isn't the right direction for him. How do I go about hearing him play without building up his hopes to much incase it doesn't work out? :confused:

Where is his heart?
This last one is the most important to me. I've been the kid that just wanted to show off for his friends and that's a bad place to be. With him being younger and this being a new experience for him I'm sure pride is going to be something he has to learn to deal with. As a team we have opportunity for discussions for 10 or 15 minutes before practice. That, combined with him being younger and more moldable, will hopefully be a serious help in developing the right attitude of worship.

I could use some advice. Thanks! :D

[El Ben]

You lucky, lucky, lucky man. Run, do not walk, and get this kid involved with ministry. I'm not even kidding. Here's why:

He's young.
Um...you caught him before he got saturated with the wrong way to do things. Honestly, this is more of a help than a hinderance, and here are three reasons why:

1.) You get to practice discipleship. You are older, married, and play guitar and sing in front of a bunch of people. You are a GOD! Aside from the fact that this kid'll probably end up thinking you hung the moon, you'll get a great opportunity to sow into the kingdom by developing a young worshipper who will be a mainstay for YEARS.

2.) You get to feed off of his passion. Students are passionate in worship. Who doesn't want more passionate worshippers on their team?

3.) You get the benefit of developing your leadership abilities. This kid's not gonna care if you get all 21 of the Irrefutable Laws of leadership down when hanging out with him. With this kid, you get the freedom to make mistakes and it still be okay.

Ya but electric?
If he really wants to be involved, he'll play whatever you throw at him, be it bass or kazoo. If you need a bass more than anything, tell him that. I'm sure he'll understand. Darlene (I don't know how to spell her last name) Zchesch started out wanting to be a youth worker at Hillsong Church back in the early nineties when it was Hills Life Centre. Brian Houston told her he needed musicians more than youth workers. Look at where she is now.

Is he any good?
At this point, the question you need to be asking yourself is "does he have a pulse." Forget if he's good or not. Does he have passion? I can teach someone to be good, but I can't teach passion.

Where is his heart?
It seems like you're wanting a couple of musicians tailor-made to be great worship leaders, and that's just not going to happen. If his heart isn't in the right place, recognize that he's a kid, and offer him a little discipleship to keep his heart in the right place. I realize that you're a little skittish about taking on this kid and whatever crap might come with him, but I'm telling you, this is a blessing waiting to happen.

I've got a girl right now singing backup on our worship team who is pretty decent right now, but by the time she's eighteen, she's going to be mind-blowingly good. Problem is, she sings a little lazy, and she's not always flexible. Those are tiny problems compared to who she'll become.


Here's the question you really need to be asking yourself about this kid:

"Is what this kid could become worth all that I would invest in him to help him get there?"

I'm willing to be that's going to end up being an unequivocal yes, if it's not then it's not and that's fine, but it should probably end up being a yes.


Fred's got a story that could probably help you out with this one. Fred, you wanna tell him how you got Weeble started on drums, then David, ect?

[milepost13]

I'll echo the comments above and add that my rule-of-thumb is that I treat anyone interested in joining the band differently if they are under the age of 18 or still in high school. Meaning, I pay special attention to the qualifications I've set up when they're that young, and I make sure I spend a little extra time helping to mentor them concerning ministry and musicianship. The only major issue I've ever had with youth is the responsibility factor, but that's only been in a few instances. I've been pleased with my involvment in working with youth on both youth bands and on our regular band.

Nate

[Stevie Nature]

I tend to agree with El Ben. I have a young guy (15, I think he was 14 when he started) on the team now and it has been a great experience. This young man also wanted to play guitar, but we needed a bass, and he was more than willing to help. He was a little hesitant at first, but just because he'd never played bass. He picked it up pretty quickly, though. My only caution is that with anyone on the team you want to give yourself a way out if necessary. If he's just really bad to the point of being a distraction you need to have him step down. I know this from experience. I like the idea that worshiptrench mentioned on another post about having a trial period. If he's terrible or there are any behavior issues beyond the normal teenage silliness, sit him down and talk to him.

[milepost13]

Here's (http://practicalworship.blogspot.com/2007/08/discussion-1-new-team-members.html) a basic outline for how we intro new band members.

Nate

[russhutto]

I would say just tell him like it is. When I have prospective/interested people approach me, I say something like, "Sure, we'd love to give you a listen, just so you know, not everyone is meant to serve in this capacity, so I may tell you that right now is not the right time for you to join the team, BUT I may tell you that it's the right time and you're the right fit, so let's give it a shot!!"

It works well.

And as far as a person's heart, I would just have a big sit down with them over lunch or snacks or whatever, and just tell them what is expected out of team members, and just ask them straight up if they think they can handle it.

[El Ben]

I don't think I'd add anything else other than the fact that these people want to be part of the worship band, not the secret police. Having a list of requirements and expectations a mile long is only gonna scare people off. I'm not saying it's not important to have expectations and requirements because it is, but I think it's important to give your team members room to breathe. One thing I'm swiftly learning is something that my pastor always says:

"Simplicity is genius."

I find that the more simple and concise my expecations are, the more people will exceed my expectations.

[twc_admin]

Jeremiah,

Great responses here. Keep several things in mind:

1 - he's asking to play .. not lead ... yeah, there's always the discussion about "who" should be on the team, whether they are in the "leader" role or not .. I've had that discussion, and with each passing day of my life, that discussion changes, haha.

2 - if he's not driving yet... getting to church and rehearsals is a pain - his parents HAVE to be on board.

3 - I'd diss on my buddy Ben's comment about "forget if he's any good or not" .. you can't forget that. A certain level of skill is required to prevent his playing being a distraction in worship, rather than an enhancement.

4 - just because you say "yes" doesn't mean he's ready for prime time- he may rehearse for weeks, or months before "taking the stage" .. this is GOOD.

The instance El-Ben refers to is my needing a drummer and teaching a young, 7-year old. By the time he was 8, he was drumming in our Sunday services. His Dad sang on the worship team, so getting little Lawton to rehearsal was no issue.

The great story, though - is the mentoring - I was able to pour into this young man until he left for college. I think there was a deep bond of respect and appreciation there and I hope/pray that I had a great impact on his life.

Keep us updated!

[El Ben]

3 - I'd diss on my buddy Ben's comment about "forget if he's any good or not" .. you can't forget that. A certain level of skill is required to prevent his playing being a distraction in worship, rather than an enhancement.

Yeah, chalk me up to being over-zealous on that one. His current level of skill is necessary to take into account when deciding whether or not he's going to be playing in the main worship gathering.

[Jeremiah]

Yeah, chalk me up to being over-zealous on that one. His current level of skill is necessary to take into account when deciding whether or not he's going to be playing in the main worship gathering.

Yeah, I wasn't so much worried about his current skill level as much as his ability to improve. We've all known people that think they're musicians but lack rythm and pitch perception.

Thanks for all the feedback. I've been praying and talking with the wife about it and I'm going to invite him to practice with us for the next month or so and see how it goes. I'll keep ya'll updated.

[twc_admin]

Jeremiah -

Awesome - hey, don't forget us here on this thread - keep us updated - give us the play-by-play on his first rehearsal, etc .... (and oh yeah, invite him to join TWC) ...!

[Jeremiah]

Well I talked to him on Sunday after church about practicing with us for a few months. I could tell he was really excited. (You know the look people get when they're trying not to smile but they just can't help it). He's really shy and quiet but I'm hoping we'll be able to get him to open up during our first practice. I also talked to our lead sound tech about showing him the ropes on Sunday mornings until he starts playing with us. I always find that musicians have a better appreciation for the overall sound of things when they've spent a little time trying to blend it.

I imagine these next few practices will be a little longer than usual. Let me know if I'm forgetting anything but I think our main agenda is:

Go over the basics of worship
Get him started playing the bass
Still have time for regular practice

I can tell he's really excited because he came to Youth Group last night (which he doesn't usually do). And one of the guys that used to play bass for us went over some stuff with him. (yay other people helping!)

I'll post on Monday and let you know how practice goes on Saturday.

[Jeremiah]

Okay, it's Tuesday.
On Saturday we had our first practice with the young bass-player-to-be. He seems to be picking it up at a steady pace. There was a very noticable improvement from when he started and two hours later when we wrapped up. I used this site (FretBoard Diagrams (http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-scale-note-printer/)) to print a diagram to help him figure out where everything is on the guitar. I also went through each song with him before we started it to show him each note on the bass, what rythm to play and the general flow. We then played through the song twice stopping as needed to give him minor corrections. And finally played through without stopping so me and the drummer could focus on getting practiced up for Sunday.

You guys were right about the young being open to suggestions. I didn't feel like I had to walk on eggshells when showing him something new. And when I did tell him something new he picked it up right away. For example: He was jumping in right away and playing as soon as the song started. I went over how it's not just about playing the notes but that we try to compose a song as a whole. The very next song without me having to tell him where to come in or where to exit (going into the chorus softly to end A Greater Song) he landed both PERFECTLY. Which was also the last song of the night.

He still needs to work on some of the basics like when exactly to begin his attack on each note and hitting the right notes but I'm really really glad I took ya'lls advice and invited him to join us.

One thing he'll need a little more of is patience though. After worship on Sunday he told me he thought he was ready to play with us (which he isn't). I told him I didn't want to start him before he was ready and that we should stick to the 2-month plan. He was cool with it.

More updates to follow as he comes along.

Thanks, all and thank you God!

[twc_admin]

Sweet - thanks so much for sharing the updates with TWC .. I feel like we're right there with ya!

[milepost13]

that's great. remember, since you're one of the first in helping to shape his music/ministry future, you've got a huge responsibility to help mentor his heart and attitude as well. Spend just as much time telling him how much you appreciate his attitude right now and how important it will be for him to keep that attitude throughout his life. I've seen too many young kids come in green and humble and wanting to learn, and getting a big head too fast and turning into divas...

Nate

[Jeremiah]

that's great. remember, since you're one of the first in helping to shape his music/ministry future, you've got a huge responsibility to help mentor his heart and attitude as well. Spend just as much time telling him how much you appreciate his attitude right now and how important it will be for him to keep that attitude throughout his life. I've seen too many young kids come in green and humble and wanting to learn, and getting a big head too fast and turning into divas...

Nate

Really good advice. I was so focused on the musical part of last practice that I didn't really talk to him about heart's responsibilities and his personal walk with God. I'll be sure to start out with that next time.

[Stevie Nature]

Awesome, man. Great to hear that. Another great thing about a young musician is that they're typically willing to learn and step out of their comfort zone. We recently lost one of our drummers, leaving us with one. (His wife has some kind of issue with a couple of the ladies at our church. It's all very silly, but it resulted in them leaving...which isn't so silly.) In any case, l noticed our bass player, who really wants to be a guitar play, messing around on the drums. He's actually not that bad. He knows the basics. I asked him if he'd be willing to let me teach him and he was more than willing. We have quite a few new musicians coming in that play multiple instruments, so it won't be difficult to fill the bass position.

[worshiptrench]

Hand him a slice of bread before you hand him the whole loaf.

[soda24]

I'd just like to add some thought.

I'm currently 18, almost 19 and I've been leading worship since I was in youth group at age 12. People might think it's weird or wrong. At that time I was even baptized yet, I hadn't answered any major alter calls or anything like that. I just had the burden to lead while the other people sat back and watched.

Of course I had to go through a learning period before I could lead on my own, but the important thing is that I was willing. This guy that you're talking seems very willing to play. He may be playing the electric now, but if he really has the heart to worship, he will keep learning more about other instruments, even if he isn't a pro on all of them.

Having a young guy help with the worship might even be a really good thing. It shows others that even a 13 year old can help out. After all, the Bible says in 1 Tim 4:12 "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."

Also, you can help him while he grows in the Lord, be a sort of mentor. Teach him to be a leader for the future. You can't lead forever. That's something that I did wrong. After I left the old church, I had not trained anyone to be a leader after me and the youth group collapsed.

However, that does not mean you should definately let him join. Constantly pray, and ask him to pray and ask God if this is his calling. Not all who are willing are meant for the job.

Good luck and God bless.

[russhutto]

Very good insights, soda!!

[acousticgal]

Four out of nine on our team are college age, and we just lost our lead electric guitarist to his freshman year...

Many times I have found these younger folks to be even more committed than those that are older! For instance, our bass guitarist is 19 (female btw), goes to school, works 30 hours a week and is so faithful!

I'm thrilled to have them; they have such a desire to serve!

As others have said, it does really come down to where each person's heart is, regardless of age. I realize, though, that it's often hard to determine this up front...

[Mrs. Monkeyman]

Hand him a slice of bread before you hand him the whole loaf.

I like that statement...probably true in most cases.

We use musicians of a variety of ages. Pros for youth: I do find it is often easier to mold the young ones, they often can give you more of their time, and they often have great ideas to contribute. Pros for age: Older ones come with more experience and therefore have honed their talent and may "flow" more with the service.

We use our youth service almost like a training ground. They have their own service and practices. Those musicians (14-20's) mentor and teach some of the children in the church (9-13). So by the time I get them they are accustomed to playing in a band and the flow and structure of a worship service.

We did recently have a young man come into our church so he did not have the benefit of "coming through the system". But after hearing him play some, he joined us for a few practices (but still did not play in service), and now he is playing in the rotation....we still work out a few kinks from time to time.

I say....if they have the talent, the desire and the right heart....use them!! Age is irrelevant when it comes to worship...."do it with all your heart, soul and strength" are the only requirements.

[maydavidj]

Good replies so far. I'm 15 myself, and started playing drums in the youth band at about 13. I also ran sound. I then got involved every once in awhile with the main band. We needed guitarists, so I learned guitar and started playing. In that first year, I played guitar, percussion, and even bass. After I developed my skills enough to keep up with the rest of the band, I started playing every week. It was (and still is) a great learning experience for me. It was during that time that I felt the call to worship ministry. Now, I'm leading the youth music ministry and my worship pastor who first asked me to play a couple years ago is my mentor.

[Kevin E.]

Good replies so far. I'm 15 myself, and started playing drums in the youth band at about 13. I also ran sound. I then got involved every once in awhile with the main band. We needed guitarists, so I learned guitar and started playing. In that first year, I played guitar, percussion, and even bass. After I developed my skills enough to keep up with the rest of the band, I started playing every week. It was (and still is) a great learning experience for me. It was during that time that I felt the call to worship ministry. Now, I'm leading the youth music ministry and my worship pastor who first asked me to play a couple years ago is my mentor.
PRetty cool! I am 13 and either do sound for youth or play drums.

To answer the question throw him in a few practices let him get a feel and work him in!

[IanMcIntosh]

Interesting discussion. I Co-Pastor the youth worship team with Melissa Wise at Bethel Church in Redding CA. When we started, we immediately sat down and hashed out what we thought it would look like. There was an interesting argument that kept surfacing, with me being bent on "excellence", which I believe very strongly in, and her more conerned about releasing kids. After about an hour of moderated arguing haha, we realized the only real reasons we had for not wanting to release kids came back to us. The actual reasons when we followed them to the root were things like "I won't be able to flow", "a song might bomb and I'll have to figure it out" "It may be a giant train wreck, and I'll have to fake it." Point being, we realized that in many cases our reasonings were purely selfish. And once we realized that we went the other direction and got rid of all of our adult musicians besides me and her. You should have seen the difference. it was unbelivable. The room exploded.

I don't mean to say that we release EVERYONE. haha. We look at the heart, and require a pretty intense committment. other than that, we do what we can to lead discussions on worship, show them what we know and hold on to our hats! haha. But really. The music "excellence" level at youth isn't as high as sundays, but the anointing is definitely.

We got our theory mainly from Shawn Bolz (Expression58.org) who if you don't know about him should. wow what an amazing ministry he has. He once said to me he treats his staff, youth or not, like they're 10 years ahead of where they're at. Which humbled this 18 year old (at the time... 20 now) a lot. It clicked, that I wasn't giving our 14 year olds the grace I'd give a 24 year old, or the faith. Once we set that right... things went crazy. We loving it!

BTW... Melissa Wise in my own opinion carries more weight in the spirit than any female singer I've heard. She's a worship leader for JesusCulture, and... wow. seriously

Ian

[soda24]

Just wanted to say:
That's really awesome David May!! I also do sound tech at church and I'm planning to pick up piano and improve guitar so I can help out more =) The learning process will never end.

[tony c]

One of your questions was "Is he any good?" When I was the worship leader at my old church, I was constantly on the lookout for new musicians. A good friend and worship leader, Jim Lanno, taught me a great way to find out who can play. He used to hold "Musicians' Fellowships" once a month on a Friday night. He'd invite everybody in the congregation to come, to sing, bring an instrument if they had one, or just come to enjoy the worship and the music. He'd give out about 1/2 dozen songs (sometimes more) and get people to plug in, or give them a mic, or just stand there and have fun. We'd teach them new songs, sing some old faves, and just have a wonderful time. It would usually last for 2 - 3 hours, but sometimes we'd be there until the wee hours. Usually, we'd get anywhere from 5 to 20 people. Worship team members wre invited to kind of give the whole thing some foundation.

The ones whom we thought might actually have talent AND a heart, we'd have the sound man record them (without telling them we were doing so ... that would totally inhibit them) and then listen to them on the playback.

Give it a try ... it's a great way to get the hidden talent to come out with no pressure!

[Jeremiah]

That's a good idea Tony. We might try that.

I have a new update for ya'll. We've been practicing with the new guy on bass for a few months now. There have been times I was worried he might not make it but I found that if I stopped and spent a few minutes of one-on-one time with him he'd improve dramatically. Sometimes the simplest tips can help new musicians improve. Such as "if you get lost stop playing and look for a chance to jump back in" and "don't follow the chord sheets exactly. Use your ears and go with the flow". They seem pretty obvious to those of us that have been playing for a while but after those and a few like them our "new guy" has really started to bloom.

We had a great practice on Saturday with some songs he'd never played before and he did well, only making minor mistakes. So we had him play with us Sunday. He was really nervous at first but he ended up doing great. We let him turn it down quite a bit to help his nerves but he really did fine. Looks like we have a new bass player!

Next Step: Worship Leading 101

[stephen_can_man]

Our problem is that we have too many musicians and not enough playing time. We have four bass guitarists, all good and one excellent, and then we have 4 guys who play electric that could step in. We have four rhythm guitarists and 3 lead guitarists (not including myself). And, we have 4 keyboardists and a mandolin player. With so many musicians, we end up sacrificing the quality because they only play once a month and are not as familiar with the songs (we do a lot of new ones). I wish we had a Wed. service to serve as a "farm league." It would really help!