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sycamoredave
05-31-2010, 06:45 PM
On the multi-year thread about why men hate coming to worship, it has been proposed that 99% of songs we sing are tied to CCM radio station play lists, with several concerns expressed about song selection. My particular Church defies that definition, but I would not want anyone to go where we are. We are far from having the answers. While we do lots of popular stuff from all the mainstream artists, we also try and fit the song to the worship theme or experience. Part of this, and part of our problem, is in trying to teach "old dogs new tricks". It is waaay too easy to get stuck in the rut of singing the same short list of hymns or worship songs.

I would like to ask for the wisdom of the sages here, in providing best practices for helping congregations learn to WORSHIP with new songs. This would suggest something more than singing it through once, or listening to it done as a special or solo. How do you incorporate a new piece of music into your worship? How long does it take to help the congregation become comfortable with worshiping with a new song? What specific things can we do to help? How helpful are songbooks with the notes, vs the powerpoint on the wall (a common request in our congregation)? How much success have you seen trying to depart from pop CCM and going in directions more matched to your congregational focus?

I know, too many questions from a newbie...please excuse!

Blessings and thanks ...:D
Dave

Trent
05-31-2010, 07:25 PM
I believe sometimes we as worship leaders can get so uptight about keeping "the flow" of music/worship going that we miss opportunities to connect with the people.

I'd suggest intentionally creating space in the sets where there is no distraction--music flows and songs are deliberately familiar so that people have the opportunity to soak in God's presence for a while--HOWEVER,

I've found that in my context, an easy-going informality seems to be most inviting to people. Informal does NOT mean sloppy. It means that if you are teaching a new song, you place it appropriately in the set (don't expect them to instantly shift gears from intimate, familiar worship to a new tune) and then tell them what's going on. Example: "I'd like us to try a new song today, guys--I sense a lot of _______ in our culture and community lately and when I heard this song I fell in love with it. You'll pick up the chorus right away--it goes like this" (sing chorus, or main hook) "Let's try that together" (repeat chorus or hook) "There you go--hey, you guys are quick--let's try it one more time and then I'll sing a verse" (sing verse) "sing with me, church" ...and have them join on the chorus...etc THEN, ALWAYS follow up with a song or a part of a song/hymn that is a similar vibe and very familiar to give them closure.

Anyway, that's how I would do it--seems to work well in my context.

The other challenge in my community here in California is that "regular" church attendance around here is twice a month maybe, so I have to remember that about the time I'm getting tired of a song, most of my people are just starting to get comfortable with it!

Hope that is helpful, or at least interesting.

trent

jonnicol
05-31-2010, 11:58 PM
I love trent's idea of stepping out of the "flow" and teaching a song. I think Tommy Walker calls it "Worship School" when he does it with his congregation. I'm starting to use that method more. I get the sense our congregation appreciates that we're not jamming a new song down their throat.

I used to "jam" songs all the time with only one rehearsal. Little by little it seeped into my thick head that maybe that wasn't working. I now intro songs deliberatly and slowly (which is not my personality). One of the best things working for us doing a song for about a month as a "pre-service" song, starting about 5 minutes before the service. Honestly, the first time we have a song scheduled for a pre-service, we end up scrapping it last minute at one, and sometimes both of our campuses. But at least the team has spent some time on it and knows what it will take to make it happen the next week.

After a month of doing the song, the teams and leaders seem pretty comfortable with it and the congregation has heard it a few times. I think the former is the real key for us. If the team is comfortable, then the congregation connects more easily.

As part of the way to counteract my ADHD tendencies to want to shove new songs in and have a rotation of 300 songs, I've incorporated a "current rotation" system that keeps me focused and deliberate with both new songs and older songs. Here's a resource (http://www.worshipteamcoach.com/resources.html)I put together for other ministries to use. Feel free to use whatever's useful for you.

jon
jon@worshipteamcoach.com

milepost13
06-01-2010, 11:13 AM
I learned a long time ago that simply introducing a new song "just because" isn't the best way to go.

We've discovered that attaching a new song with a bigger experience really helps people to connect with the message of the song and better understand the purpose of the song. For example, with each new sermon series, we introduce a "theme song". Usually that song is a congregation worship song, but sometimes it's more of a "performance" song. Either way, people are able to understand the song as it relates to the bigger picture of what is happening during those few weeks/months in our church body. So, as they're learning that new song, it becomes more about singing the message than singing the notes.

Nate

TheOldATrain
06-01-2010, 04:19 PM
Dave,

If your congregation has an element that has been accustomed to singing from hymn books, I actually have a web site which has PowerPoint projections of hymns with the music on the slides.

Hymn Score Projections (http://www.hymnscoreprojections.com)

I realize this was only a small part of your post, but I thought I'd just throw this out there in case you might find it useful.

When I introduce new songs that I have written I sometimes use "lead sheet" slides if it's a song that I have written. Otherwise the typical approach of "performing" the song during offertory or the beginning of a service one week and then formally introducing it into worship the following week tends to work pretty well in our church.

Alex

Alyjo
06-01-2010, 09:36 PM
I lead worship from the piano at a very small church, and the only time we can practise together (at the moment) is before the service. When we introduce a new song, we usually will play it after the service the week before while everyone's hanging around chatting (sometimes for a few weeks if need be), and then again before the service the week we play it. Because we're a small church and kinda casual, if someone in the congregation doesn't know the song they'll just sing anyway, and they soon learn it, but by then they usually have at least the tune in their heads already. It works for us at the moment.

Moosicman
06-01-2010, 10:15 PM
There has already been some good feedback here. I'll add that one important thing to do is to create a culture of the "new" in your congregation. We don't do new stuff, just to be doing it (well, maybe every now and again). We keep our worship services pretty thematic and that requires me to find songs that fit the particular theme. We do this with both the hymns and choruses. I've even written some because the Methodist hymnal is SLACK when it comes to tunes on tithing (actual money). So because they are pretty accustomed to singing new things, they don't resist. But I'll be honest, this isn't an overnight solution.

The other thing we do (can't remember if this was already suggested) is I rehearse the chorus or hymn with the choir for a week or two. Obviously, if you have BGV's in a praise band then they will know it. The louder you can get the voices in the room singing it that know it confidently, the more the "shy" factor is overcome for those who don't know it and aren't so comfortable singing out. I've never heard that in a seminar or anywhere else, but it's a very real fact. Confidence and comfortability are the KEY when leading in worship, because the congregation will mirror that. If I'm leading a new hymn or praise song, you can bet that I'm singing it as if it were "Amazing Grace" or "Lord, I Lift Your Name On High".

I think this was already suggested too, but if not, we introduce many of our new praise songs as C.T.W. selections. Our choir sings the C.T.W. and so I may have them do it for two weeks or more (sometimes our C.T.W. stays the same for a month but it isn't a hard and fast rule) and then I'll lead it on the second or third week. By that time, they are very familiar with it.

The other thing I would recommend isn't quite what you are asking for, but what you can still do. Wrap your new song in between two old standards in a medley. You have to plan an make sure that this isn't your "intimate" worship moment. You don't want to bust that vibe. But I've been known to do a version of "I'll Fly Away" into the CHORUS section of "God of Wonders" and end with another chorus of "I'll Fly Away" (or some other standard). This example is just a "for instance" and musicianship skills must be primo so that changing feel (from a strict 4 into a relaxed 4 in this example) doesn't make everyone in the room feel awkward. OR, in this particular instance, you can do the strict 4 "I'll Fly Away" in the relaxed 4 of "God of Wonders" feel instead. It's not as peppy, but it can work! :D Anyway, worship is not a performance, but there is an old performers rule that goes "people remember the very first thing, and the very last thing they hear the most". So its a kind of mental trick that may help them ease into "that song we didn't know". Blessings!!

sycamoredave
06-02-2010, 11:02 PM
Thanks for some great feedback and suggestions. They sound like tried and true solutions to me. We have done some of those things as well, but the biggest thing we are struggling with is getting people in the right frame of mind to worship, and to adapt to change. Learning the songs is part of this, as well as the style, tempo, flow of service, etc. How successful have some of you been in trying to bridge generational gaps, especially with newer music? Any suggestions?

Blessings ... ;)
Dave

Trent
06-03-2010, 12:06 AM
ahhhh....the dreaded generational gap. A few thoughts:

There are some older folks who will never like anything new. Period. Unfortunately there are some of them who are cantankerous and dreadfully immature spiritually. Aside from a miracle of God in their life, they cannot be taught anything and certainly not reasoned with, as musical preference is a matter of emotional/personality preference--no matter how much people try to spiritualize it. I'm not picking on senior adults. Every generation has its share of shallow, selfish Christians.

Then there are those amazing and inspiring older Christians who radiate with God's love and energy and who open their minds and souls to new things--even if their personal preference is a different flavor. I know a number of these people at my church and they are my daily heroes.

In my experience, the VAST majority of older folks have gone down one of these two paths--it is rare to find someone somewhere in between.

I do see quite a few younger/middle-aged people who have been burned in legalistic churches showing up looking for healing from the guilt and fear that they were wounded with.

Those people are ready to learn new things, but their past will have left them sensitive and they still have a lot of hang-ups to get over. (I know, because I had to recover from it myself)

My first church was a "transitioning" church. I was a human lightning rod for 2 years. I did learn some things that seemed to help.

It's good to figure out what those people's preconceived notions are so that you can give yourself the advantage. For instance, most traditional worshipers think that ALL contemporary worship music is vapid, shallow and "vainly repititous" haha
So, take a DEEP breath and get ready for a LOT of grace and patience and start them out on a contemporary hymn with undeniably rich lyrics. When you try newer stuff, make sure it is extra substantive and don't repeat the chorus 3 times. :) Don't judge them on their stoic approach, either--they don't know anything different, and at this point, physical expression in worship is weird, foreign and downright scary.

Anyway--I suppose I could write a book...sorry this is so long. Remember it takes extreme patience, a pastor's heart and accepting the fact that some of them will never change.

Warren Weirsbe says, "If you march too far ahead of your troops, they will mistake you for the enemy."

Moosicman
06-03-2010, 01:26 AM
Thanks for some great feedback and suggestions. They sound like tried and true solutions to me. We have done some of those things as well, but the biggest thing we are struggling with is getting people in the right frame of mind to worship, and to adapt to change. Learning the songs is part of this, as well as the style, tempo, flow of service, etc. How successful have some of you been in trying to bridge generational gaps, especially with newer music? Any suggestions?

Blessings ... ;)
Dave

Yet another solution that isn't going to be a quick one: BUILD RELATIONSHIPS! I know you already knew that. I"M TELLING YOU ANYWAY!! LOL. I take a genuine interest in the older generation of my church. I laugh with them, I cry with them, I help them in any way I can, I listen to them!!, I carry on casual (yet meaningful) conversations with them, etc... Actually, I even square dance with them, but that is a whole other thread. Anyway, these relationships are worth their weight in GOLD when it comes to speaking into their lives about current trends in worship and the need to be culturally relevant. AND, when I said I listen to them, it isn't just to appease them. I take their suggestions, comments, and yes, constructive (and DEconstructive) criticisms and try to walk the tight rope between spurring them on to the new, while finding my own relevance through their desires of worship.

On creating that "heart of worship" atmosphere (or as you put it, mindset) in the worship time, there is only ONE solution. You have to get people engaged in worshiping as individuals. If you have small groups, then by all means, go to some of them and lead them in worship and use those to foster that intimate, vertical worship. Or get with that "remnant" circle of believers (you know who they are in your fellowship) who are passionate about worship and who enter that mindset no matter if the rest of everyone else does or not. With them, pick a night to gather at someone's house and start an informal worship and prayer time gathering (DON'T, DON'T, DON'T GROW INTO A CLICK). Then invite and let that grow into other individuals in your faith community and grow that group. An illustration will say better what I'm not doing so well at specifically, so indulge me.

All things being equal, its hard to take just a match and light 100 or so lumps of charcoal. BUT, if you've got 5 or 6, or 10 or 12 that are already burning and you take one or two and put with it, that one or two will begin to burn very easily. Keep adding and soon you've got your 100 all burning. In those intimate settings, we find the freedoms of meeting Jesus in a way that doesn't seem to happen on the corporate church-wide level as easily. But then, when your church-wide corporate service is more like a reunion of all your small groups (or that informal, once-small group), you will have transformed the whole tone, attitude, and atmosphere of the worship service.

As you know, but are seeing more clearly, perhaps: there are no quick solutions. Makes me think of something I hear Dave Ramsey say. "The only way to get rich quick, is do it slowly".

milepost13
06-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Thanks for some great feedback and suggestions. They sound like tried and true solutions to me. We have done some of those things as well, but the biggest thing we are struggling with is getting people in the right frame of mind to worship, and to adapt to change. Learning the songs is part of this, as well as the style, tempo, flow of service, etc. How successful have some of you been in trying to bridge generational gaps, especially with newer music? Any suggestions?

Blessings ... ;)
Dave

It takes a long time to turn the titanic around. Creating and changing culture in a church takes a long time, especially with an older church. Figure out your vision, purpose and strategy, and begin to implement.

Nate

Trent
06-03-2010, 12:11 PM
TOTALLY agree with Moosicman on the relational end--thanks for bringing up that crucial piece...

Stephen Nettles
06-08-2010, 12:46 AM
this has been a huge challenge for me.... i've grown up in the church and litterally get mentally and physically annoyed at most of the music we play for worship services..... whenever i lead i try to bring in some new stuff... not just song wise but style wise (Ian McIntosh, Fee, and non "worship bands" anybody).... but everytime I do.... i get shot down and told i can't do those songs (normally having to redo my set minutes before the service) because it makes the congregation "uncomfortable"...... SINCE WHEN DID CHURCH HAVE TO BE COMFORTABLE!!!??? SHOULDN'T WE BE CHALLENGING PEOPLE TO EXPRESS THEIR WORSHIP AND LOVE FOR CHRIST IN NEW CREATIVE WAYS?!?

my question is... as a young leader that has a bit of a short temper with these things (my passion becomes over zelous sometimes) what do I do? how do I help my leaders understand my heart and how do i get my bandmates to go along with the new "uncomfortable" feel...if only for one service 3 or 4 times a year? (thats about how much i get to lead)....i've considered quitting church music completely time and time again.... i still consider it... but i really don't want to.... i always want to be able to give my gift back to God by serving in church.... as well as my primary goal of serving God with my gifts outside of church.

jonnicol
06-08-2010, 12:31 PM
stephen, wow...sounds like you're pretty frustrated. You said: "SINCE WHEN DID CHURCH HAVE TO BE COMFORTABLE!!!??? SHOULDN'T WE BE CHALLENGING PEOPLE TO EXPRESS THEIR WORSHIP AND LOVE FOR CHRIST IN NEW CREATIVE WAYS?!?"

i think part of our job is to draw the church into new territory/expressions, but we also need to create an environment the encourages worship that fits the culture of your church right now. if you're church is "middle-of-the-road America" you're going to fighting an uphill battle with edgy, non-congregationally-accessible stuff.

I don't think we should throw out our ideals and beliefs, but we are where we are to serve the congregation we're called to. Our own tastes and preferences need to be secondary.

[Sorry Stephen, i sound the people that I used to roll my eyes at when i was in my twenties.]

Maybe you're not in the right place. Check out Joel Auge Joel Auge on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads (http://www.myspace.com/joelauge) and his church The Meeting House - The Meeting House (http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/). His worship music is awesome, but it's stuff I'll never introduce at my church. His church and music is for a completely different crowd than most churches/worship music.

Stephen Nettles
06-08-2010, 10:13 PM
to jonnicol

ya i get very frusterated sometimes.. that last post was a day after a frusterating experience at church. i'm really working on my attitude towards it.. i keep asking myself what my motivation is.... while i know i have authority issues and a short temper sometimes (i don't scream at people or anything) the reasons behind my frusteration with the "rules" we have about music in the church are, I believe, good reasons that have to do with my calling in life. i was made to be a boat rocker and a warrior... challenging the norm... i was made to be creative and pioneer things.... i'm just still young and learning to walk out it my calling without stepping on people.... something i so do not want to do.

like i stated before... my calling is not to do ministry directly in the church... i believe i am called to do ministry through music outside of the church in a very different setting, very different way of presenting.... just different in so many ways to what we do in our modern american churches..... so my question is..... while i want to continue playing worship in church.... is that the right thing for me to do? is it crazy to say maybe i'm not supposed to be playing in church services?

jonnicol
06-08-2010, 11:48 PM
stephen, appreciate your openess.

One of the best piano players on my team also plays with the local symphony and is the musical director for local plays, etc. She ask me to play in a pit orchestra with her last summer so I got to see her in her element. She's great on my worship team, but she's awesome in the theater element. So much so that I told her if it ever came to a decision between the two, I'd rather see her do her thing out in the "marketplace" being salt and light versus being stuck inside the church.

so no, it's not crazy...maybe the frustration is a nudge towards something else.

btw - i had to learn the authority issue the hard way. The book, "Under Cover" by John Bever (http://www.amazon.com/Under-Cover-Promise-Protection-Authority/dp/0785269916/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276055149&sr=8-4) helped me turn a corner in that struggle.

sycamoredave
06-09-2010, 06:16 AM
Jonni and Stephen:

Our worship team plays as a band as well as leading worship. By doing this, we have come to better understand the role, opportunities, and challenges of each role.

As a worship team, you have to play a role in context, in a particular place in the service. That role must "fit" in with the congregation's journey, the nature of the congregation, and the context of the pastor's message and/or theme. As such, we are not as free to explore, expand, or challenge. The congregation is rarely a "tight" group, unlike an audience that might go to hear a performer, symphony, or band. The expectations and role are different.

As a band, we are free to explore some of the limits of our style, push the message a bit, and try more creativity. The primary role here may still be some degree of worship, but the entertainment factor allows for more freedom, and the expectations are different.

To use a football analogy, springing new plays on a football team, in a real time game environment, is risky and likely not productive. The congregation is a bit the same. Whether it be style or content, or just familiarity, there needs to be some coaching and conditioning to prepare them to worship. Worship is not a concert. Active participation is essential in worship. The congregation needs to be familiar enough with the music to be able to sing it and/or follow along with it. Challenging new things may be interesting, but may not allow for worship.

There are other roles where you could probably push the edges a bit such as youth service, community events, and outreach ministries. These venues may have "tighter congregations", be more open to new things, and have different needs than the Sunday congregation. Being mature and flexible enough to play whatever role that God calls you to play is part of the journey.

To all:

I have learned a lot from all of you in just reading and thinking. There is a season for things, and in our Church, I think we need a season of learning and growing before worship is going to move in a new direction. As a compromise, my Church has been using a seasonal worship pattern with two months of contemporary followed by 4 months of mainly traditional. We are now moving to a blended format. Have any of you managed a season of significant change like this? I am envisioning a period of more teaching, and setting the expectation for fewer songs, with smaller numbers of worship team members, and working on both the style and content of the new songs in worship. We would then gradually increase the size of the team and content of the music to incorporate the blended style.

Any thoughts?

Blessings...:)
Dave

MarkSnyder
08-26-2010, 01:44 PM
In our church, we have the two-track thing going - two traditional services with orchestra and choir, and a contemporary service led mostly by college students. The music pastor will introduce some music into the traditional service to try to bridge the gap (ie, Hillsong, Redman, etc), but mainly relies on old standards and hymns with the traditional service. For the contemporary, they are pretty free.

What is interesting, as mentioned before in this thread, is that there are smaller venues within the church where newer songs can be explored. For instance, our church has a quite active adult Sunday and Wednesday education scene, and, for some of those classes, they welcome and even desire in-class worship. What makes that interesting in my case is that I lead worship in a class that draws people from both the traditional and contemporary services. Therefore, in some ways, I can serve to bridge a little bit of that gap - bringing new stuff to the group to stretch them, while at the same time bringing hymns and standards to the ones who tend toward the contemporary. In some ways, its also an opportunity I can use and can help out the main music minister. This is because I can socialize songs with people who otherwise might never hear them, which is valuable.

To echo someone above, my advice would be to think about opportunities to socialize new songs in other settings than main worship if possible first. Try them there, identify the ones that work (keeping your eyes and ears open while you do them), let the cream rise to the top, and then take the step to introduce them to the larger body or beyond if they work out in that setting. One advantage of this approach is that you may have some people who know the songs before you introduce it to the body, meaning that you will have singers in the congregation to help carry it the first time through. Also you will have some data to go on as to how a song really works before you try it on 'the big stage', which hopefully will help to avoid negative reactions or a good song falling flat and having an undeservedly short run in your worship set list.

Mark

betnich
08-26-2010, 02:31 PM
Dear Stephen,

You have gotten some good advice in the posts above. Many leaders and congregations are stuck in the rut, and age right along with their traditional styles, programs, and buildings. Others know enough to include the young, and use a little from the upcoming generations. I think the key for us as Christians is to be accepting and not look down on each other's preferences.


If you don't fit inside this church's walls, maybe you are being called to reach outside them...