secular music

[km7100]

What does everyone think about using secular songs in a worship setting? I've never actually done it but I've been at worship services where it's been done.

If you have used secular songs, which ones and how did it go?

Matt

[fmckinnon]

Matt,

I think the line between "secular" songs and "christian songs" is often skewed at best. LaMar Boschman put it best once ... he said to me, "what makes a song a Christian song .. does it get saved? does it profess Christ"?.

That being said (a bit tongue in cheek), I completely understand the "heart" of the question.

My reply ...
I think it's fine if the motive and strategy is pure. Obviously, the "secular song" shouldn't have lyrical content that is offensive or contrary to the written Word of God ... that's not to say it can't address ISSUES that are contrary .. but you know what I mean .. don't sing "let's go get drunk and cheat on your mama" songs.

Ask yourself:
1 - why do I feel the need? Is it because the song is the best thing to use to communicate a truth? Is it because you feel the "need" to be relevant? And if so ... why do we feel forced to use the world's songs to be 'relevant'?
2 - are we REALLY just doing this to be cool? In many places, I think that's the purpose - they just wanna be different, cool .. push the envelope, offend some religious people. Sometimes, I find myself feeling the SAME WAY - but that's probably not a pure motive.

Weigh the benefits and the pros/cons ... search the heart of God, and move forward with His leading.

That's my $.02.

[km7100]

That's why I haven't done it in the past. There are so many good worship songs to use to get the message across. In the services I've been in where they have used secular songs, it seemed out of place and somewhat forced - just to be cool or "relevant".

[russhutto]

It also depends on WHO is in your primary gathering.

In my situation, there are many more PROS for using a secular tune here and there, to emphasize a message series, or to connect with our people, than there are cons.

In fact, all of our walk-in music (recordings) are mainstream (secular) music. We played an LL Cool J song this past sunday...Can't remember which one though, as that is not my department...but I remember thinking, "Hey, this is LL Cool J!"

The team responsible for picking out that 30 minutes of tunes does so very intentionally and responsibly.

Occasionally we'll include a good upbeat tune like Free Ride in our worship set. And sometimes we'll close with a thought provoking mainstream tune at the end that really brings home the point.

For the majority of our worship sets, however, we use solid worship tunes.

[tony c]

I have a few pastor friends who have started inner city churches that work with the homeless, prostitutes, drug addicts, pregnant single women, battered wives, etc., etc., all the folks that society tends to want to sweep under a rug. For some of those people, "Indescribable" or "Spoken For" don't mean much, if anything. BUT, if you play something like "Free Ride", as blindeyesopen played, "Let it Rain" by Clapton, or even "Come Together" (albeit with different words, like 'Here come Lord Jesus, He come movin' up slowly, He got eyes of fire, He's a Holy Roller'), then you'll catch their attention. They might listen. They might even come off the street and into the hall where the "meeting" is happening, grab some soup or coffee, and stay a while. They might hear a quick, simple 15 minute teaching that might or might not sink in, but you've planted the seed ... someone else can water it.

[Mixman Bill]

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

[Mixman Bill]

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

oops, should have finished it. I think any song that meets this criteria is acceptable. We've used such songs as attention getters in secular settings.

[SeanMichael]

I believe that the use of "secular" songs can have a positive impact if they are done for the right purpose. If your purpose is to try and catch people's attention with "hey look we are relavent we're playing Free Ride" you might be missing the point. But if your purpose is to try and reach people where they are through the use of those songs, well then you might just have it.
I saw Building 429 in concert a couple months back and they combined You Never Let Go by Redman with the chorus from I Believe by Blessed Union Of Souls..... AMAZING impact! So much so that I am working out the arrangment to do it myself.
So when working out whether you are ready to do something similar, ask yourself, what is my purpose? Then allow God to speak through you. Everyone will find their answer.

Sean

[worshiptrench]

hey I copied this over from a worshiptrench.com post....


Should “secular” songs ever be used in worship? (See the Imagine book link for a great discussion the false bifurcation between the secular and the sacred, hence our reason for the quotes here.) We use “secular” songs for the following reasons:

1. To create a learner need moment that the Sermon-worship will answer.

We did Dylan’s All Along the Watchtower in a message series entitled The Panic Room (one of our rare movie ripoffs). The song’s lyrics basically say the whole world is coming to an end yet people are unaware of it. During the song, the screen was filled videos of Chernobyl, riots, kidnapping, disasters, etc. At the end of the song, we had a little girl singing lines from “He’s got the whole world, in His hands” over a picture of a nuclear explosion. It made the hearer’s say, “Does God really have things under control, or is that just the Sunday School answer I have?” Then we answered the question in the message.

2. To get people out of their ecclesiological bubble to deal with the questions the world is posing.

Many times the church is answering questions the world isn’t asking. To counter this, we use secular music to broach the questions. We once showed the Smashing Pumpkins Rat in a Cage video and Bob dissected the video’s presuppositions and a biblical response to that worldview. It made a lot of our church people realize that the world was voicing questions in a different language then they often spoke. Very cool service.

We DON’T use secular music:

To make lost people feel comfortable or have a point of identity in the service.

We might do a total of 5 “secular” songs all year that are actually done by the band and not a video backing or somesuch. It has to be a really tight fit for us to go that way.

[russhutto]

YES!!

Great post, Jordan.

[SaintLewis]

I guess you could say that I ONLY believe in secular music (yes, that is 'exists') if you define it as music not EXPLICITLY written directly for the expressed worship of God, and if we define 'Secular Music' in such terms, it's opposite is 'Worship Music' - but I still acknowledge that, in a loose sense, ALL music in worship in the sense that it both displays some sense of an act of art/creation, which expresses order & beauty, which - whether or not it is intended by the author to do so - is a reflection of the grand designer, and reflects back - even if sometimes minimally - towards His goodness.

I don't believe in the 'Christian' vs. 'Secular' distinction as it's usually made, however, because I don't believe having a Christian carpenter working on my house makes my house 'Christian', nor does using a Christian mechanic makes my car 'Christian' - not even if I cover it from bumper to bumper with Jesus-stickers and silly slogans. In this fashion, how should we define 'Christian Music': music BY Christian? (Starflyer 59, or even The Fray fit this definition - yet what about the fact that their lyrics are rarely 'explicitly' open about their faith?); music FOR Christians? (to the surprise of many, some of the 'Christian Music Industry' is about this - more musicians than I'd like to know about that are on pop CCM radio aren't REALLY believers at all: they just know how to look the part, and like making money from Christians - sad, but it happens); music ABOUT Christianity/Jesus? (this happens both on secular radio and religious radio programming, and in some cases some of the most inspiring is written by non-believers, from a 'questioning' position); or even music on a 'Christian' label? (Even though nearly every major Christian label is simply a subsidiary of a larger mainstream label, and are run much the same as their 'secular' counterparts). I guess that's just to say - I think we need to ask the question, if we aren't going to use my prior definition (Secular vs. Worship), how will we define what we will accept as 'Christian' music and are we willing to use that in a corporate worship environment, knowing the possible risks that each of those other definitions entails.

For me, part of ministering to people is 'connecting' - if an artist writes songs that are ALL about God, and not about daily life, people who haven't yet experienced God are NOT going to connect: period. Yes, the Holy Spirit changes people's hearts, but God uses 'means' to bring about his work - what we do to connect with the lost is important.

This next week at youth group I've arranged an edited version of the song 'Money' (I even went into Logic 6 and edited the questionable verse out, so I could distribute the song to the musicians with a clear conscience) by Pink Floyd for our WALK IN music: good walk-in music, played well, that the kids are familiar with tends to loosen them up, helping them connect with the other youth by sensing a point of contact ("Hey - I know this song!"), and it also helps keep the environment from feeling 'Holier than Thou', which tends to happen when you pull large groups of Christian together, sadly enough. Next week we're doing 'Tom Sawyer' by Rush. At the same time, we also aren't afraid to go not only DEEP, but doctrinal during the corporate worship at youth group, so those same youth who may not be so comfortable with church that connected to the community through a song they may be very familiar with - which helped them let their guard down and be willing to try this 'God thing' - will also be singing corporate worship songs that cover the spectrum from horizontal/vertical, from simple choruses from the heart to theologically solid modern (and ancient) hymns.

It all works together to encourage 'growth' - even the so-called 'secular song' is ultimately used by God to aid the outsider connect with the larger community of faith, see & experience God, and be welcomed to join in and become part of God's people - this is ministry, in my book.

I know - it may not fit any normal interpretation of the 'Regulative Principle' (for those of you who care what that is), but I still think it's a good thing in the right environment.

[jackb7]

The coolest use of secular music that I have experienced was Clint Brown at Judah 10 when he sequed into Huey Lewis' The Power of Love. They also sample some licks from some other tunes from time to time but usually very tastefully

[Mike Darley]

I guess the question is what exactly are we doing in a worship service. In other words, is it primarily evangelist or are we ministering to the body? The only New Testament mandate in Scripture as far as music goes instructs us to, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col 3:16. Notice the "one another". In the worship service we are primarily ministering to believers. Now, we can talk all about what would be most effective, but we must first seek to be Biblical. This would be most in line with the regulative principle. Personally, I don't have an issue secular music. I try to keep up with a lot of it. A lot of the hopelessnes found therein is a great jumping off point for sharing the Gospel. The issue is what we ought to do in a worship service. This opens a whole can of worms, but I think that's beyond scope of the question. In answering this question we have to be careful the think about these thing "Christianly" and not simply pragmatically.

[El Ben]

I do remember I was in a worship service at Southeastern University in Lakeland, Florida and the worship leader segued out of a Christ for the Nation's Song called "Running After You" into Journey's "Open Arms."

I immediately burst into uncontrollable laughter because I caught my older sister making out with her boyfriend while that song was playing. People didn't know if I was being rude or if I had the good-ole penecostal/charismatic "spirit of laughter."

In the SAME SET, the worship leader busted out the first couple of lines form that old Rod Stewart tune "Have I told you Lately THat I Love You?" At that point, it was just so trite that I didn't even bother.

[Mike Darley]

That's pretty funny. I probably would have laughed too. Or may grabbed my wife and started slow dancing. I'm leading worship only about two hours from Lakeland in New Port Richey, FL. I'm not sure if that's on my profile. I might have to update it.

[SaintLewis]

In the SAME SET, the worship leader busted out the first couple of lines form that old Rod Stewart tune "Have I told you Lately THat I Love You?" At that point, it was just so trite that I didn't even bother.

Most do not know that "Have I told you Lately" was originally written as - essentially - a 'worship song' to God...Rod Stewart covered it...it was written however by the Christian (even if his doctrine may be a little wacky) Van Morrison, during his most explicitly 'Christian music' period of his career. The original song was written to be a 'prayer', not merely a romantic love song. So, it's more fitting that you may think. And how many other so-called secular songs are the same - I know Foreigner's "I want to know what love Is" was similarly penned immediately following Lou Gramm's conversion (well, that's what Lou said, but Mick Jones - their guitarist - says the idea was originally his: who can sort all that out?).

[Mixman Bill]

I was at a small concert once; Paul Balouche started with Steve Miller's "fly Like An Eagle". "I want to fly like an eagle, let God's spirit carry me". It seemed to fit really well.

[mikeymo1741]

I was at a small concert once; Paul Balouche started with Steve Miller's "fly Like An Eagle". "I want to fly like an eagle, let God's spirit carry me". It seemed to fit really well.

A concert is a different setting from a worship service. I've seen Christian artists do secular songs and have been fine with it. They generally fit the moment and appeal to a broader audience.

But at a worship service, I think I'd need to stick to a song that explicitly praises or worships God, not one that might be construed that way if you think about it.

Perhaps a song like "Have I told you lately..." could stand a little introduction explaining the origin of the song in that setting.

[milepost13]

And, a year later...

Anyhow, since this has been raised from the dead...we use "secular" music in church fairly often. A few weeks ago, it was The Who, and the very next Sunday, it was Josh Groban.

Nate

[russhutto]

I'm not really sure if Jesus made a distinction between secular and sacred music back in the day.

For most of judeo-christian music history music was closely tied to religion.

Either there is no record of seular music in the NT or it didn't really exist (on a large scale like it does today).

Yeah, yeah I'm sure there was "Roman" and "Greek" music...but it was still "sacred" in the sense that it tied into the prevailing religious currents of the day.

Anyways, this is a topic that divides and likely always will.

To me ALL music brings glory and honor to God even if indirectly. Would I sing the "Thong Song" in a worship set? Nah, but the very fact that that song can "move" people (if even only to dance) is evidence to the divine spark in music.

And before you excommunicate me, I DO understand that not all music is appropriate for worship but if you look past the messy fingerprints of man's interference you can see the Spiritual in all music.

[yod1948]

Music has so many uses. The way a song is framed and presented has as much to do with it's "appropriateness" (isn't that a word?:confused:) as the lyrics/music.


I wish the saints would be encouraged to write so there would be no need to use secular music.

[russhutto]

I wish the saints would write GOOD music, so that we wouldn't have to use "secular" music...

I kid, I kid...

Or do I?

[maydavidj]

Well I think (although we could use more) we have some "good" Christian music...but the point of using the secular stuff is that the world would know it and relate. Although most doesn't work in a worship set, I think secular music would be useful for walk-in music, music for the theme of the service or message, etc. There's one church I've seen on the internet called Granger Community Church that I think is a prime example of using secular music in ministry. They have tons of videos of it up on the media player on their website at gccwired.com (http://gccwired.com)...Eleanor Rigby, a lot of U2 stuff, Dirty Little Secret, Best of You, Boulevard of Broken Dreams, even the Mario theme song!

[Mike Darley]

Let's hope they don't use all the lyrics. I'm reminded of my time as a youth worker when the youth pastor decided to use 50 Cent at some point in the message. He started playing "In Da Club". I remember thinking, "I hope it's the edited version...it wasn't. :eek: I'm pretty sure the youth pastor hadn't listened to it before hand.

[mikeymo1741]

I remember a service a few years ago where someone was invited to testify, and in the middle of it, he started inexpicably singing "Three Little Birds." We were all looking at each other like "well, this is inappropriate..." I guess it meant somthing to him, and thinking about the song, it's got a pretty positive message. But the image of Bob Marley tokin' a big doob is what really popped into everyone's mind.

My point is, there's more to a song than the lyrics. If someone relates a song to a particular artist (much like the aforementioned "Have I Told You Lately..." is related more to Rod Stewart than Van Morrison) then that needs to be taken into account. You want people saying "Wow, that's a meaningful song." and not "Wow, why are they doing a Bob Marley song?"

[chrisjane]

I am sure you guys realize that this is an argument that has been going on for centuries right? It is totally another generational thing like our generation being more rock inspired and the next generation being more hip-hop inspired.

You have to remember that back in the day they took the powerful and sacred words to the most beloved God songs and set them to "bar" music of that day (contemporary music) to refresh them and plant them in the hearts of that times "young people". That is the same thing that has happened ever since. It is the same thing that is going on now. Every one is coming out with their own versions of classic hymns that they have updated or made current with the times so that they will be planted in the minds of the young people today. And that way they will be able to last another generation because the content of those songs is so valuable that it would be a tragedy to lose.

I would like to emphasize this point only. CONTENT... What ever you do, whatever songs you play, please be aware of the content. Style is not relevant...

[yod1948]

I once heard a church play "Just Give Me Money" by the Beatles for the offering.

I thought it was funny but not sure if it helped their offering

[chrisjane]

Now there is a Pastor with a sense of humor!

[NLoomis]

Yup, we use secular music occasionally. We once did a series where we used a different Beatles' song for each week. "All You Need is Love", "You Say You Want a Revolution", "Help", etc. We've done Doobie Brothers, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and U2 as well. If it fits your theme and doesn't have any bad words, use it. God isn't afraid of "secular" music and neither should your church be. Like everything else you do, just make sure there is a purpose in doing it.

Nathan

[chipshot0701]

We're currently working on "Upside Down" by Jack Johnson
and "Learn To Live" By ex Hootie Blowfish, Darius Drucker

Good times!

[stephen_can_man]

We use Secular music at least once a month, usually more than that. This weekend: Kryptonite by Three Doors Down

Two weeks ago we did a Verse and Chorus from the Guns and Roses song "Welcome to the Jungle" and our pastor dressed up as an 80's Rockstar. Crazy...