Stacking OD's, trying to get Jesus Culture type tone?

[Gaetano Paul]

Hey guys, looking for advice on what type, or kinds, of od's or even distortions will sound great through semi hollow with p90's. Would really like to get that real full, yet intense Jesus Culture/ heavier Desperation Band type sound!
We have a youth who has been studying @Hillsong Au for the past 3 yrs, and @ Christmas he comes home and plays on our team. He says never use Dist, yet next to all his boutique drives, OCD Timmy Hot Cake, sits the Jekyll and Hyde.
I am Bent toward dist as before I came to Christ it was all I knew, so I have, and still am, going through a paradigm/ technique shift. Going from Metal and Punk, to full boat praise!
Any advice you brothers have will be much appreciated:D.

[Gaetano Paul]

Also, is there a certain amount of od's not to go over stacking together. ie 2 or 5 or whatever?

[musicianinthestates]

Why can't you use distortion? Is it an issue with excess noise from gained up P90's?

There used to be a vid on youtube, tho its been removed, of Chris Tomlin's guitarist sharing his pedalboard set-up, it included a proco rat distortion, zvex super-duper 2in1 booster, fulltone fulldrive OD, and another drive or distortion but I can't remember which one.

Another pro named Ben Gowell, as of Nov 09, used a booster, a cusack screamer, and cusack fuzz and xotic bb plus. He sounded awesome.

Seems to be 3 OD's and a booster is a good way to go for stacking.

[Gaetano Paul]

Good word, thanks for your input. Yeah I have seen that video now that you mention it.:D

[hisfirewithin]

I'm a big fan of the idea of a two-amp setup. I plan to go to something like this in the next year or so. I want to get one amp for dirty tones and use my current amp for cleans.

So, I suggest getting an A-B-Y switch, and a second amp that breaks up nicely, mix in some amp overdrive, a good clean boost(try the catalinbread), and maybe a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive or Fulltone OCD. This kind of setup should give you plenty of gain with LOTS of harmonic resonance and sweetness.

[coryedwards81]

I run all of my effects through a True Bypass Looper, so I don't really stack any of my overdrives. So every time I engage another overdrive it just pushes my amp that much farther without stacking them on top of each other. Before I got the looper, I ran through a Dyna Comp>Zvex Super Hard On>Stock Blues Driver as clean boost>OCD and if needed I have a sparkle drive for a final boost all through a clean amp, and I was very happy with the final results.

[Major Tom]

Not that it is the "right" way, but just to throw another methodology out there... I don't stack OD's, ever. I use my amp (tube) for the foundation tone, and only use an OD for a "third channel". I have played around with stacking a couple, but it seems to get too compressed / mushy, what I would call homogenized for my taste.

I do find it interesting in gear forums that guys will be asking what pedals are needed to get so and so's tone... ignoring the fact that the player in question is playing a $2500 guitar (that he handpicked) thru a $3000. boutique or vintage amp, which is being recorded by professionals, who then EQ, compress, etc. the guitar track(s), and then master the overall mix.... As if some pedal with 5 bux worth of electronic components is what really makes this pro player's sound. 10 or 15 guys will reply to the OP, oh, use this or that $200. pedal, and then finally, maybe one guy will ask "well, what guitar and amp are you using?"... "Uh, a Skwire Affinity Strat, and a Fender Frontman". :D

I guess my point is, and the way I approach it, the guitar + amp + me (how I set the controls, and playing technique) is where I need to get the main, overall "tone", what I call my foundation tone. OD pedals and such, IMO, should be used to get some variations on that... If my amp doesn't have a good edge of distortion, or light crunch, or whatever I want, then I have the wrong amp, not the wrong pedals.

[phil77]

Great post, Tom! My thoughts exactly! There's nothing wrong with trying to get the tone of an admired player, but one must realize all the variables that are present in achieving it.

[Gaetano Paul]

Yeah I am not sure how this stacking thing is gona work out. Tommorrow I will try the 3 that I got. A Bad Monkey, Dano TOD, and a WASABI Od, into a peavey classic 30.

[musicianinthestates]

Yeah I am not sure how this stacking thing is gona work out. Tommorrow I will try the 3 that I got. A Bad Monkey, Dano TOD, and a WASABI Od, into a peavey classic 30.

Good luck! that transparent OD is rumored to have been modeled after the famous Timmy boost pedal, so it'll probably be best served at the end of your drive section. if memory serves, the wasabi has a lot more gain than the monkey, you may find the best set-up to be an imitation of the Jekyll and Hyde, where the higher gain channel is before the lower one in the signal chain on that pedal. (possibly making the ideal combo of those three pedals, wasabi----->monkey----->TOD.)

[Gaetano Paul]

Thanks MIS, I am going to try that.

[musicianinthestates]

Thanks MIS, I am going to try that.

cool, update us when you get a chance. I don't know if its right or not, just seemed logical.

[Gaetano Paul]

Just got back from my first service with this set up. I did the Bad Monkey, it is the heaviest, to Wasabi, to TOD. It worked well. I am pleased with all three, the Wasabi and the TOD stack well with the Bad Monkey. I really like the Wasabi because it sounds so great, full of options, has a separate side as a booster, and is very unique. I am not sure I like the whole using two OD's at the same time thing though?
It is still new to me, and when I was younger I couldn't see the point in them, preferd a Metal Zone LOL.
Yeah the heavier first into the lightest! Awesome!

[musicianinthestates]

Just got back from my first service with this set up. I did the Bad Monkey, it is the heaviest, to Wasabi, to TOD. It worked well. I am pleased with all three, the Wasabi and the TOD stack well with the Bad Monkey. I really like the Wasabi because it sounds so great, full of options, has a separate side as a booster, and is very unique. I am not sure I like the whole using two OD's at the same time thing though?
It is still new to me, and when I was younger I couldn't see the point in them, preferd a Metal Zone LOL.
Yeah the heavier first into the lightest! Awesome!

great! hey, doesn't the mt-2 have a dual gain circuit? not much different from the two OD's except you got more control over each individual gain parameter...

[Gaetano Paul]

I dont know? I haven't had a Metal Zone in a long time?
I still feel like I need a distortion in my set up, but I think I may be wrong?
I dont know, I only play in church?

[musicianinthestates]

I dont know? I haven't had a Metal Zone in a long time?
I still feel like I need a distortion in my set up, but I think I may be wrong?
I dont know, I only play in church?

I've been listening to some jesus culture videos on youtube. It doesn't seem like distortion is a necessity for their tone. But maybe for piece of mind you could add a rat, big muff (go for the tone wicker model), or crunch box? if you're on a budget check out the cool cat distortion.

[willie]

Paul
I have spent a lot of time working on matchless and two-rock amp emulations in software, and have now gotten pretty close.

something that may work for you.....

split the guitar signal into 2 parallel signals
each side getting a compressor, tube overdrive, and an eq
then combine the signals back together.

it sounds complicated but what it will allow you to do is have one stream clean, and one stream highly compressed and with gained up sustain.

the clean will give you pick attack and note definition, and the gain side will give you sustain for days.

I will try to post clips of how I do this in GR3.... it should work with pedals too.

I have a scary two-rock jade model that works great with Jesus Culture stuff

[willie]

on a budget you could use one compressor and y the output to 2 tube overdrives and then re-combine them.

that would layer together nicely
.. and emphasize 2nd order sweet harmonics

[Gaetano Paul]

WOW Willie

They sounds way intense?:eek:

[bbrunskill]

I don't actually think it's that complicated - Jesus Culture tone, to my ears, is hot EL84 amps with P90's or vintage style humbuckers. Maybe extra gain from a quality overdrive pedal.

A lot that you are hearing is great mics', preamps, EQ, and compression. Until you spend time in a pro recording studio, it's hard to understand just how the tone can be affected by outboard.

And of course the other reason some guitarists have amazing tone is that they are amazing players.
Sometimes an hour's practice will make you sound better than buying that Fulldrive II you have been gassing for.

[bbrunskill]

And also, when stacking drives, I like to think of one pedal as an amplike sound and one as a boost, I.E:

In my rig I use an old T-rex Alberta as a moderate overdrive, a kind of vox-y sound. Then in front of it I have a Barber LTD, which adds a little compression and tightness to the sound. I would get similar results tone wise from running a slightly dirty vox amp with the Barber infront of it.

With my current rig I can get really nice warm tone at a very low volume, which is perfect for church.

[willie]

here is a cheezy clip of 2 of my patches for Your Love Never Fails

no speakers mics or DAW or cool studio stuff
.... just two tracks in the loop machine in GR3

please forgive the white noise and sloppy playing :o

jesusculture.mp3 (http://trinitycustomguitars.com/jesusculture.mp3)

[Gaetano Paul]

WoW Willie,
The main rhythym part is right on, so is the melodic lead type part. Awesome! Good job!
I just got the VoX Big Ben OD pedal, This thing is killer and I am super excited to plug it in @Church this weekend. It is kind of hard to get an accuurate sound out of my home set up, which is either Garage band (latency city) or Line^ Spyder III 15, which is terrible for real OD type sounds.
The pedal sounds alot like the Fender deville I owned as a teenager.

Thanks for the help Willie

[willie]

G Paul
How did the Big Ben pedal do? I am going to fire up my modded tiny computer rig again next Sunday, after a bronchitis induced break from Worship.

here are some things I have seen regarding guitar tones:

I hear you about the line6 spyders. My teenager has one, as do one of the guys on our Worship Team. The guy that fills in for me if I'm out also has one.

They have a very thin brittle digital sound that is only multiplied with their chorus is on, and they get lost in the mix badly.

All of them seem to make a common mistake in EQing their amps (that I did too when I was younger).... they scoop all the mids out and crank the bass to 11 and push the highs up. My kids friends call it djent djent ....which is obviously a new word for I can palm mute and noodle but I have no tone bwahahaha. This was cool in the bedroom for riffing but will not work for worship. .... and makes the sound engineer want to throw his headphones.

what happens is ...the guitar loses any focus or voice that lives in the midrange frequency, and instead they have to crank up the stage volume to hear anything at all. The guitar sound smears all the other instrumentation and listener fatigue sets in before the set is halfway done.

I have found that by carefully tuning the midrange to a unique range (not un-like a voice) I get lower stage volume and the tone sits nicely in the mix warm and round with plenty of definition. By turning down the low end, the bass and drums lock together to occupy the the low end, and the bottom end breathes with tight bass even at lower SPLs

I have heard some guys get a great tone from line6 stuff. I have a friend with the bogner tube powered stuff and it sounds great.... but like everything they require tweaking a little.

I think the secret is to really listen to our sound with fresh ears, and compare it to the many awesome Worship guitar sounds that are out there.

.... remembering that the tone starts in our hands and our hearts, and the equipment should only enhance and amplify that.

[Gaetano Paul]

Hey guys!
The Big Ben was awesome. Really cool, sat well through the Peavey Classic 30. It is really transparent as far a preserveing the true tone coming though, also the gain knob really works, unlike some other pedals! LOL...... At 0 it is pretty much the exact tone and sound as with out it on, with unity gain found and the tone knob dialed in. The tone knob does not seem to do to much, but that is cool with me because I cant understand why we want to mess with them anyways. Arent we wanting the tone of guitar to come through? Dialing the gain up is cool as well, 4 is a nice light gain like a TIMMY AND SUCH, MAYBE A NICE OVERDRIVEN BLUES JUNIOR. RIGHT ON UP TO A 10, MAXED OUT ON THE GAIN FDRIVE IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO MY OLD FENDER hot rod DELUXE MAXED OUt ( sorry just realised the caps lock was on) totally overdriven. Maybe even a good bit heavier. Very versitile pedal. WoW!

Still trying to figure this whole stacking the OD's thing????????? Dont get it?
Not sure if I should use the Big Ben as a High gain, or a low to medium. I was using it with a Wasabi Od and they did not stack well. The Wasabi is clearly not true bypass and has not stacked well with any pedal I have ever tried to match it with. I am thinking about getting the Dano cool cat Od to stack with it, those stack so sweet. Probably the Timmy clone.
Thanks for asking.
Yeah and man does this Spyder sound bas!!! lol, it sounds as if I can never get all the effects off =( Oh well its just for home and lessons..........:rolleyes:

Thanks for asking brother.

[willie]

Hello again
Its been a while haha

I have a new take on getting the Jesus Culture tone
in disclosure I own Archangel Electronics (.com) and use our ap-1e preamp extensively

I start with a bone dry guitar straight into a hi-z input on a 24/96 edirol
and record the wav output..... and here it is all naked
http://archangeldirect.com/dry.mp3

I reamped that wav file out of a cheap lexicon omega usb interface turned way down (like 8:00)
into my Archangel AP-1i and into a parallel compressor and split into the front of my guitar amps just like my guitar.
here is the reamp with the dry wav file played through a blackstar HTsage60 and a Johnson Millennium
the original wav was then run through guitar rig3 on a vox ac30 and a compressor
http://archangeldirect.com/reamped.mp3

i dont normally record this way, but someone asked me about re-amping

so heres the original track
http://archangeldirect.com/jcylnf.mp3

and heres the full mix
I played and recorded every track and part and programmed the drums.
http://archangeldirect.com/ylnf.mp3

the drums are my dr-5 drum machine into Kontakt running Best Service Artist samples (Simon Phillips)

the bass is a cheap Stagg 5 string run through the AP-1e and direct in the 254/96

The Keys are a wurli sample into a chorus in Kontakt
The pads are a jupiterish basic one in atmosphere.

I record with Reaper DAW software and mostly their included plugs
except for altiverb and lexicon reverbs

The reamped track is mixed loud
but the lead track has a more authentic tone since it was recorded live instead of reamped.
The lead track is both amps boosted with an ap-1e into the front end through 60' of cable
....btw, the blackstar is miked with a e609 and the Johnson with an AKG large diaphram condenser.

there is a very low 3rd guitar part in the intro
I will share later

Hope you enjoy :)
willie

[IanMcIntosh]

I know this is mostly an old post... but just a quick FYI the entire Jesus Culture band (myself included) have email addresses posted on our website that we check. (At least I know Jeffrey, Brandon and myself do.) I know he would be happy to answer any questions. Our emails are [firstname] at jesusculture.com

Ian

[willie]

How very cool it is too see you hanging out Ian.
you made my morning.