Upgrade Advice

[madviolinist]

Hi All,
I'm starting to think about upgrading some of my gear, and was looking to get some advice on what I'm currently thinking about, and any other options that I hadn't considered.

First of all: What I'm currently Using
Fender Squire Strat into Danelectro FAB Distortion, FAB Overdrive, Korg AX100g, Boss DD5 with Tempo Tap, Behinger Preamp and into the desk.

What I'm using it for:
Our morning service worship band consists of Keys/Piano, Drums, Bass and myself on guitar. We generally get the song list about half an hour before the service starts, so a lot of what we play is on the fly. Because of that, I'm leaning towards stomp boxes as opposed to multi-effects, as I'm able to know what each pedal is going to do, and not go searching for a good tone in my AX100g.
Once a month we have a youth service, where we generally have at least one acoustic guitar, sometimes 2, bass, drums, keys, and a heap of singers (had 7 singers in total at the last service). That allows me a bit more freedom to muck about with heavier effects, or modulation effects a bit more, where I'm not required so much to provide harmonic background.

What I'm looking for:
My first priority is an amp. I've got the luxury of playing with a nice Marshall amp (I believe it's a DSL401) for a gig on Friday, and the tone it creates is so much nicer than what the AX100g puts out through the desk. It doesn't need to be a massive amp (morning service would be maybe 100 people), and would be used mainly as a stage monitor, so I'm not looking for a massive marshall stack (as nice as that sounds).
One consideration was the Blackheart Little Giant Half Stack (http://www.blackhearteng.com/bh5h_bh112.html), which is a 5w valve head with a 1x12 cab. Apparently, it can get an awesome tone, but won't blast anyones ears out. Also from Blackheart is the Blackheart Little Giant Combo (http://www.blackhearteng.com/bh5112.html) - which is basically the same as the half stack, but in a combo setting.
I've also heard recommended the Fender Blues Jr (http://www.fender.com.au/amplification/guitaramps/blujr.php), Line6 Spider 3. My price range is pretty much any of the amps on this page (http://www.billyhydemusic.com.au/shop/browse/30/guitars/amps/750-1000/).
What would I like in an amp? A clean and overdrive/distortion channel would be nice, but I can also get that through pedals, so not essential. I'd also like to be able to plug it directly into the desk for FOH mix, but again not essential, I'll buy an extra mic if needed (best we've got at church are SM58's, I'd go and buy an SM57 if the amp needed to be mic'd).

In terms of pedals, I'm looking to upgrade my overdrive and distortion pedals, thinking of the Boss Blues Driver and Boss Distortion or Turbo Distortion, and add in a Dunlop Cry Baby, and maybe a Chorus pedal (though not sure which brand yet).

My biggest question is the amp, as that will kinda decide what pedals I get (if I get an amp with footswitchable channels with clean and od, or clean, od and distortion, then I won't need those foot pedals). What's your recommendations?

[nomad100]

I would avoid the 5 W amps because there not enough clean headroom really to use with pedals, and when it's turned up loud enough to distort it's to loud! When i say loud i mean to loud for church.

I would recommend using a mic, it will almost always sound better.

I honestly prefer amp distortion to stomp boxes.

[nomad100]

epiphone and black heart have some 15W amps that are still single channel that would work well with stomp boxes

[phil77]

I would have to disagree with nomad; five watts is *plenty* of power. It doesn't matter how much clean headroom you have (generally speaking) unless you are wanting to run the amp hot and still have a clean tone. In your venue there would be no reason to run the amp at those levels, especially if you mic it. Also, hitting an already dirty amp with a drive pedal sounds great, provided both sounds are good on their own. And, the level control on the pedal can regulate how much it will affect your overall level in the room; no issue there. Anyone who thinks that you need a lot of power to get volume or great tone is only fooling themselves. My Bad Cat is 15 watts, mic'ed with a 57 and a KSM44, and we are in a 3200 seat room.........zero volume issues, and I run both of my amps pretty dirty and still hit them with drive pedals.

[phil77]

Nomad, I have to ask; what did you mean when you said "When i say loud i mean to loud for church."? What is considered "too loud for church"? Just curious...........

[madviolinist]

I guess too loud for church depends on your church. A Marshall Stack may well be appropriate in something like Hillsong, but would be overkill in a small country church - unless you were aiming to place granny shaped holes in the back wall of the church.

As I keep looking around, I wonder if something like a POD X3 live might do the trick for me. It's about the price range of the amps that I was looking at, and is different to the multi-effect that I've currently got in that you can assign each button a stomp box effect (i assume). I could get the effect of having the amp that I want (assuming what I want is available on the X3), and have my sound come through the monitors. That way it's also scalable (I guess) in that I can leave the sound guy to get the balance right, without my amp stuffing things around on stage?

Also, has anyone heard of/used the Zoom G9.2tt? The two pedals, including one that goes sideways as well as up and down looks rather interesting...

[nomad100]

i used to use a 5W valve junior at a church, the clean was not loud enough and the distortion was to loud. It did make them turn up the sound system, nice not having an MV on an amp! I would set the amp to where if i hit the strings hard it distorted and if i played softly it was cleanish. If you put the volume down on my neck pickup it was pretty clean. The distortion wasn't as saturated as i would have liked, with this balance.

issue also arises if you want your FX post distortion, it's the power amp on these little amps that provide the crunch. there is not enough clean room to run a pedal then fx then amp. I felt the amp needed more clean headroom in my use, and it was to loud to really enjoy the amp pushed into a nice distortion.

[travisvwright]

If you go with an amp I think you should consider a DSL 401. I'm not an expert on DSL but I have a TSL 122 which they say is the exact same amp with an extra gain stage. I like the sounds in the amp so much I do not own an overdrive or distortion pedal.

Things I like about my TSL that I assume the DSL has. Speaker Emulating Line out. You plug an XLR into the back of the amp and go straight to the board, no issues, super easy. (The 100 Watt TSL has a V.P.R (Virtual Power Reduction) that they claim makes it a 25 Watt amp. I doubt the DSL has that but as it's only 40W there's not going to be a lot of volume difference.) But more importantly is that there is a Mute button that mutes the speaker but the line out is still live. So if you are in a really small venue and only want FOH you can do that and still get a really good sound. Also I see them for sale all the time for $500.

If you are only playing in church or you are only playing where you are sure you'll have a good PA I would encourage you to consider the X3 live. The ease of use and simplicity of setup make it great. However, as is obvious with it you are reliant on the PA to produce the sound it creates, which for many people is no big deal but for some it's a deal breaker. To be clear I do not own one, but considering my 100Watt marshall I often consider how much easier (read: lighter) it would be.

[phil77]

Madviolinist-

If you're considering an X3, I suggest that you spend a little more and pick up Guitar Rig 4 Kontrol. It kills anything Line 6 has, and is much easier to use. Granted, you'd need to keep a laptop with you to use it, but it can be controlled by the pedal controller. The tones are amazing and the options are practically endless. No scrolling through menu's, everything is "drag and drop" into the "rack". Absolutely AMAZING!

[hisfirewithin]

Amp-wise, I think you should go with a Fender Super Champ XD. There's a pretty easy mod you can do to it to give it an FX loop, there's a lot of REALLY good sounding preamp models in it, it's two channels, it's only 15W with a tube power section, so you get the "sag" and feel of tubes, it sounds stunning when you get the power tubes saturating, the cleans are the best of blackface Fender amps from the 60s, and it's pretty light and easy to lug around. I think it's the perfect amp for worship.

I would definitely do the FX loop mod shown here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=7119622

I'm going to do this to mine:-D

[madviolinist]

Cheers for the advice. At the moment I'm leaning towards the X3 live. I'll have a play on it before finally deciding, but that seems to be the best solution to getting what I want (providing the most flexibility), for the cheapest price. I'll probably be getting it around April - a birthday present to myself :) Hopefully just in time for school holidays, when I'll have the time to play with it and find the sounds that I like.

[simon]

I was literally just about to buy myself an X3 live last weekend but spent some time watching youtube demos before making the plunge, and remembered one of the things I hate the most about multi-fx's - the sheer number of options!

The great thing with pedals is that you know what they sound like - find the one that's good for you and you have it! With multi-fx's there is always the chance that you are missing that perfect sound!