Small, Country Church Projection Needs

[qhrider]

We think we have a problem solved in our small, low-tech country church for worship songs. We've been using (of all things) an old overhead projector and transparencies each Sunday. Well, we got a good deal on a 47 inch LCD Flat Panel Screen that using Media Host. This allows us to plug in memory sticks to a USB port and project picture images on the screen. We hope to use this for our songs and have someone with enough knowledge of using a remote to change through the slides when we are singing. Any one have any experience with something like this? A projector and screen just didn't seem to match our requirements (hall is over 100 feet long with high ceiling). Besides, it introduces the use of computers to the whole thing. Any thoughts or tips on this set up?

[Klampert]

looks like you have got it cleared up..I would personally hook a commputer up to it and run a worship program like song show plus or one of the other ones out there.

While an overhead isnt very good a regular projector from a computer is typically the standard these days. Large image with high quality.

[qhrider]

Just a bit more information - I checked with Office Depot on projectors. They showed me a few that would work for under $1,000 but, since the ceiling is so high in the church, we would need to suspend the projector. Our church building is over 100 years old. We put ceiling fans in it several years ago and ran into a mess getting around in the attic. I'm sure that suspending the projector would be a worst nightmare and add significantly to the cost. We also talked about mounting on the back wall. But, in order to get a projector that would cover that distance, we're talking something like a theatre projector and BIG bucks.

We do plan to eventually hook up a computer from a side room and run some alternate means of programming beside the Media Host on the T.V. set.

Thanks for the feed back.

[El Ben]

I have actually had some experience with this kind of situation in a ministry I worked in a couple of years ago. This particular ministry ran into the problem of too low a ceiling, but it actually translated into the same solution. The ministry (a junior high extension of a thriving student ministry that you can check out here (http://www.evolveyouthchurch.com) ) that I worked with used two large flat-screens and they got the job done well.

Essentially, what you can do is this:

Using some form of projection software (probably powerpoint if you don't want to invest in some of the higher-tech stuff [personally, if you can jerry-rig it right, powerpoint works just fine]), you can create your worship set database on either a laptop or a desktop (if the computer is in a permanant sort of place).

That done, you can trek down to your friendly neighborhood Radio-Shak or similar store and purchase a pretty decently-sized VGA input/output cable. All said in done, this is the same sort of cord that connects the monitor of a computer to the cpu. Get yourself a AV splitter (also purchasable from your local electronics store), seeing as how this will pay for itself since you can use it for setting up a DVD player or other visual input to the TV without running eleventy billion wires all over the place.

Connect your computer to the splitter and the splitter to the TV (using the long VGA cable). You should be able to use the computer to control the on-screen graphics of the TV. You may have to fiddle around with input controls on the TV, but this is a time-honored and multi-use solution that will get you going until you can invest in a more complex media setup.

Hope that helps.

[twc_admin]

FRED trembles with fear over what may happen to El_ben when the "Tech for Worship" mods login and see that he's used the cuss word "R*ad*0 Sh**"

You used the Sh**** word .... El_Ben!?
(ok for all the newbies, we get silly here .. just kidding!)

[Klampert]

ha ha ha...never ever use ra*** sh***...

Oh my...and I thought he was the guy to listen to...wow.


LOL

[Adam Ogden]

Holy cow....I don't even know what to say....I am speechless. :)

OK, seriously, Radio Shack is great for the RARE times when some little adapter dies or disappears, and you need a new one NOW. However, any time you are in the PLANNING stages, and have time to order real gear, PLEASE do.

With this specific thread, here are the issues with RS. First, I'm not sure they sell VGA cables at all....and if they do, they won't be any longer than 15' feet or so. Secondly, they aren't going to be very well sheilded...and if you are running in an attic that you said is already filled with stuff, you need something that is going to reject interference from lighting, etc. Since I assume you aren't going to be running this in conduit, remember to keep your video cable 36" away from power lines, and if you have to cross power, cross it at a perpindicular angle, to minimize the chance if picking up interference.

You really may want to consider the projector/screen idea. It's becoming the standard, and you can get a fairly large screen, and a descent projector for about as much as the flat screen. As far as mounting the projector, Chief Mounting makes mounting solution for every type of situation...sloid ceiling, drop ceiling, vaulted ceilings, steel beam, wooden beam, etc...they are actually pretty cheap, not a lot of expense involved. As far as the projector, let me give you this tip: Don't buy a projector from a company who specializes in pens and paper clips. I have looked at projectors at office supply stores, and then compared some of the ones I have on my campus...I got them OVER twice as bright, better resolution, better contrast ratio, and more input options for the same price or LESS than what the office supply store offered. If you need help on projector selection, let me know.

Whether you go projector or stay with your flat screen, the signal path is basically the same. I would buy from Comprehensive, a well-known industry leader for professional cables. get a VGA cable, that will run from the screen to the control booth. I agree that you should go ahead and use a computer. I also agree that if you get a computer with 2 video cards, you can run dual-screen PowerPoint just fine...the only advantage to Pro Presenter or Media Shout or whatever...you can run all of your videos off of it, eliminiating the need for switcher, DVD player, etc.

Today's lesson?
-Radio Shack is good for last minute, emergency needs ONLY.
-Office Depot sells GREAT staplers and tape dispensers. Period.
-Even though you are a small church, it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it with excellence. Excellence is defined NOT by being the best, but by doing the best with what you have. This is going to be a project that is used for years to come....try to do it as right as you can. You'll pay later on if you don't.

[twc_admin]

atta boy ... I knew the mods would come to the rescue!

[dtpuga]

Ben, Ben, Ben...

I am ashamed of your language.

GHRider. I hope the REST of us can help. HaHa.

I should start by saying that I basically echo my friend here, Adam. Radio Shack is good for putting a radio in a shack. And only if you don't have time to buy the radio somewhere else and wait two days for it in the mail.

Office Depot, Staples, and the like... only buy from them if you know what you want, why you want it, and still can't wait three days to get it in the mail. The guys that work there usually know that if you are asking about expensive tech equipment in their store then you must also not know what you want or need. They up-sell you something that is probably not what you need in the first place. (I mean no disrespect to you on that, its not like its bad to not know what projection equipment is needed and when. I also recognize that every employee of these places is not out to get you.)

Anyway...

For the same money as a decent 47" flat panel display you can get a much bigger display in a video projector with some rigging and everything else that you need. A desktop with enough horsepower to run presentation software of any kind is super affordable now too. We recently bought a 3000 lumen BenQ projector for just over $1000. A desktop should set you back barely $500. That should not be very different from a 47" flat panel. You are going to have to buy cabling pretty much either way you go, so I consider that a wash. If prices of some of this new equipment is a bit scary, I highly recommend used gear on Ebay. If its a reputable seller and they are using square trade its a pretty safe bet. A 70% reduced price used Edirol video switcher from eBay will run circles around anything you can get at Radio Shack.

Also, you said your room was 100 feet long? If that is the case, then a 47" screen would not cover it in my experience, unless you put about 3 words on the screen at a time.

I guess all I am trying to say is keep researching the projector possibility a bit more. Adam already gave a few places to check into and if you want more suggestions, message me and I will help you out also. I don't want to pimp a bunch of shops in here if I don't have to.

Ummm, I just scrolled up and re-read your post. Apparently you already have the LCD in hand. Is it too late to take it back?

Is it already installed? If so, how is the visibility from the back of the room? Also, if its in, and its what you are keeping, I would still consider going the used video switcher route on eBay and putting a computer somewhere to control it. The remote method that you talked about scares me. IR remotes have one significant limitation among others. Line-of-sight. You get someone 20 feet away and get them to hit it right, each time, AND keep up with the music and I will be super impressed!

I'm curious to hear how it is working out.

Travis

[Klampert]

I would agree with that. 47 inch is probablly too small for a 100 ft distance.

We just picked up a pretty decent projector from www.tigerdirect.com for $599 3000 lumens. And it came with a free screen and projector mount.

Check out that site and maybe use the Tv for some other ministry

[El Ben]

The shame...OH THE SHAME!!!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I am the king of ghetto-rigging, and I happen to LIKE R*d** Sh*ck. I will agree with adam and travis, though. If you can get real gear, get real gear. I'm just saying, that's what we did in Griffin in the Junior High ministry and it worked fine. It was ghetto-rigged (as aforementioned), but it worked.

So there.

<initiate duck and cover mode... activated>

[Jeremiah]

-Radio Shack is good for last minute, emergency needs ONLY.


You've got questions; we've got blank stares.

[El Ben]

All you people drinkin' the Haterade about Radio Shack. Ya'll ought to be ashamed of yourselves! :D

[qhrider]

Yes, we have made the investment into the 47" LCD. It actually is working very well. I am limited to the number of words per screen for songs. And I invested in a laptop computer with Powerpoint to use for the songs. (I needed one anyway.) The dealer on the TV (attends our church) ran S-video to the TV that I plug into the laptop each Sunday morning. I also have a "Presentor's Remote" that is not IR. It works real well for us. I have just enough room to set up the laptop under the pulpit and plug everything in. (Told you we were "small"). I've found a lot of folks that are willing to run the remote while I play the guitar.

Just one more option for a small church - low budget for worship. With the computer, we've also been able to run video with sound through the LCD. Really "high tech" for us backwoods folk.