Hip Hop in Worship

[MandoRon]

I've been talking with our associate pastor about how to incorporate more hip hop into the Sunday morning services. I thought would be a good idea to get more input.

We have occasionally (a few times a year) brought in a local rapper to do some songs with the band. He usually brings along some dancers too.

But we want to take it to the next level. Incorporating hip hop elements into worship on a regular basis... You could say we were inspired by a recent Tony Morgan blog on the subject... http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/05/06/the-new-traditional-church-music/

How does a predominantly white church, all white 80's rock band, etc... do this with out coming across as cheesy and fake? We want to genuinely reach out to this culture.

What are you doing? What have you seen?

Thanks in advance for the input.

[TruePraise]

Our church is so far from being ready to do this I have no answers...But I certainly think it is an interesting idea....

[musicianinthestates]

There are a lot of artists doing a blend of hip-hop and rock. Have you thought of finding songs that sound a little blended - rock with a slight r&b/hip-hop beat or bassline? Then incorporate more of that, and more, until you can do a full fledged hip-hop sound. Blending should help the "not sounding fake or cheesy" concern. Plus, not alienating your existing members is just as important as reaching out to those who are yet to come, so blending together slowly is a great need, something my church is not thinking about so much these days.

[fmckinnon]

Hey,
I just discovered this thread - my first response is ... is that really the culture and demographic of your congregation? If so ... cool. If not ... why? If you want to do it just to be part or the "new traditional music" as Tony Morgan puts it ... then, "different" for different sake isn't always the best choice.

I think if you incorporate it some for the sake of diversity, that would be awesome, though. It's also an incredible way to reach out across cultures and racial barriers (or, cultural barriers) and bring in some guests.

To be able to say "hey, nobody can nail this style like you guys, so how 'bout coming and ministering with us this Sunday" ... that would be awesome!

[MandoRon]

Blending and diversity is what we are looking for. Not to change who we are, but to add hip hop elements in order to reach more people.

We've partnered with a local rapper a few times and done songs like Jesus Freak by dc Talk, Solid Rock by Derlirious, Lose Yourself by Eminem (with rewritten verses), etc... People go nuts. The band recently played outside a restaurant during the Wichita River Festival. When P.C. and the dancers came up, a lot of people started paying more attention. The energy level went up.

Rap over rock music will probably be a key part of it. Need a DJ scratching too...

[Viclyn]

From what I understand about Hip Hop is that it isn't just a style of music, it is a culture. If your demographic is mostly white and isn't much into the hip hop scene, I don't understand that choice. They may appreciate the novelty of it with the guest rapper but to get it in regular doses might make it a different story. Now a blend as was suggested might make it more relevant. However, the question about demographics still applies. If you want to incorporate it more I would just ask for more guests who really are from that culture and demographic to work with you rather than try it when you really are outside of that culture--it comes across as cheesy--think Vanilla Ice.

[MandoRon]

Viclyn, good point about the culture!

[stephen_can_man]

I don't think you will find a lot of experience with what you are talking about around here, only because it is uncharted waters. Sounds like you might be more of a pioneer in that area, so good luck!

[russhutto]

Haven't seen this thread until now.

Hi, I'm Russ. I'm white (actually more of a peachy-beige color). I'm a southerner. I'm a rapper. I'm a worship leader.

All points so far are smack on. Here's what I can add with my experience at HOJ.

1) Diversity is indeed a virtue we should pursue as churches. At the same time we should do less for more impact. Pick a target group (preferrably by location/age/life phase NOT by color).

We live in a country and an age where (depending on the region) it IS actually possible to worship with people of different skin color. It's a beautiful thing.

2) If you're pretty much an all "white" church I would actually say that on the surface it might seem counterintuitive to incorporate cultural elements that on the surface seem to reflect "black" culture. But I'd also throw out the fact that most album sales for rap music actually comes from young white people. Rap wasn't "born" in white culture, but it certainly isn't foreign to white people.

If you've got someone who can spit. Let them do it. If you don't and you have to bring someone in to do it, I'd look at it the same way as any other element. If it's not homegrown it can be good in small doses, but if it's not something that comes from inside your community it could come across as cheesy. By that I mean it's always good when we utilize talents from within our own faith family. We don't bring in guitar players every week from outside the church right? We use our regulars. I think the same should apply here.

3) White + rap does not = cheesy by default. Sure, we have our stereotypes: White people can't dance. White people can't jump. White people can't rap. I say nonsense. I can do all of those, though my vertical these days isn't quite what it once was.

That being said, there are a lot of cheesy white rappers. I hope I don't fall in to that category, but I might, depending on the listener.

4) Using hip hop where we are. We are a diverse church. Black/White/Hispanic. We use a lot of already soulful/cultural music. And we also do a lot of straight forward rock music. It's a good BLEND.

Once every month or so we use a song or 2 that has short rap bridges in them. Shackles (Mary Mary-we added a rap to it). With Long Life (Houghton). Jesus is the Best Thing (Munizzi).

They always go over very well. But that doesn't mean they will every where.

Occasionally, I'll do a rap song as a special. People always enjoy that and I get tons of requests for my cd. Which I don't have because I've never made one (rap that is).

5) Recorded music. Do you use any hip hop before and after service? If so, great. For us, this is always where we play the majority of our more thumpin stuff. There's almost a club/dance atmosphere (we meet in a theater) before and after service. It helps when we actually do stuff live because it's not so foreign.

6) Some of my stuff: you may like, you may not. Just adding it to let you know where I'm coming from with my "rap" perspective.

Drowning (http://russhutto.com/2009/03/50-songs-crunk-edition-drowning-new-rap-version/): A tune I threw together in GarageBand.

An older blog post (http://russhutto.com/2008/09/i-used-to-be-a-hip-hop-star/) talking a little about my hip hop influences and heritage.

With Long Life (http://vimeo.com/4707810): Vimeo of us doing with long life. We kinda pushed the tempo throughout. So proud of my vocals. Come such a long way this last year. It's not perfect (mix), but I love this team!! Have a little "white" rap in the bridge.

[Viclyn]

I hope I didn't offend Russ. I wasn't necessarily equating hip hop with a black culture although it definitely has its roots there. Hip Hop has definitely spread in its influence and so you can very well have someone who is not black be part of that culture. However, I do find that white rappers do have to twist it to fit in certain ways. Mathers put his own spin on it and didn't try to go too street. I think what much of what he talks about and how he talks about it is garbage but he definitely put his own mark on the style. Fred Durst also twisted it slightly so it would "fit." I've seen early video's of Fred and his early career as a rapper was pretty sad. It was only when he rocked it that it became something that was authentic to him. Vanilla Ice tried to portray himself as something he wasn't and that is what made what he did less credible. Less about being white as not being who you are. If that is your demographic and something that is culturally relevant to both your team and to your congregation than fine. I would be careful that novelty becomes about novelty and not about worship. Now granted I am an older-white woman and I may be completely off base but I work with teens who will sniff out the unauthentic from the authentic. That is why I never try to talk like them unless I'm making a joke. They get a big kick of this white woman talkin' street.

[russhutto]

I hope I didn't offend Russ.

Oh, not at all. In fact, your points are very very valid and true.

I kind of echoed them myself in my long ramble of a post.

Bottom line: if it's not good and authentic it's probably not worth pursuing anyways.

[russhutto]

Just wanted to point people to a badly mixed video of us doing some rap stuff as a prologue into Shackles by Mary Mary.

The live mix was boomin but the video mix somehow lost all it's oomph.

http://russhutto.com/2009/06/sunday-setlist-61409/

Anyways, just one example of how we try and mix things up.