Getting Into It

[Robinskeys]

We have two services in our church right now... one contemp. praise and one traditional. I have zero problem with traditional service in theory (went to one for many of my growing up years, though I do prefer the music and worship in the comtemp. services stylistically!)

In Psalms there are MANY types of worship and singing listed! I find that meditation and reflective songs, as well as rejoicing and clapping and dancing and hand raising songs are ALL in our praise service, but I often feel that the Spirit is being quenched in the traditional service. Can't those same worship patterns come into play even w/ traditional hymns?

I know there are more reasons than tradition for this - It's just a bit frustrating when a decent number of the congregation in that service sings like they're at a funeral. I know that some don't agree with our "modern music" and there ARE attitudes of discord, but there should still be passion for God no matter what type of music one is singing in church... right?!

OK... So the question is -
For those of you who have two services, or even a combined service, does this seem to be the norm? And if not, what can be done to help (though I know the biggest change must come from the heart)?!
Right now I'm the keyboard player for service 1 and grand piano player for service 2 - the grand piano just isn't too conducive to leading a worshipful atmosphere as it's not set up like a Michael W. Smith concert! HA ;) a bit easier standing at the keyboard for the praise service, I'm admit (I did try that for service 2 and there were many many complaints... yes yes, I know... yikes... lol )

[WorshipFocus]

Honestly, the problem isn't with the music or the style. It's a problem of the heart of complainers. Worship style is simply a catalyst that smart complainers have found to inject their misery. If their complaint isn't a biblical issue... I would address it with someone who complains. Here is what I do:

When approached by an individual who is complaining about the music or worship style....

1.) Ask them if their complaint is biblical or a personal unwillingness. Chances are they have no biblical reference to back up their complaint if YOU are doing your job correctly.

2.) If you have an ongoing supply of complainers.... I would set at date for a "Saturday Worship Clinic" and tell people as they come to me to complain that you are having an educational clinic on worship and that you would like to invite them to attend. The questions they are having about worship are normal for some people and those issues are going to be covered and you will be teaching on that very subject. Be prepared to explain your position biblically, but chances are less than 5 percent of those who you invite will come. Next time they approach you, don't answer their complaint about worship... if they didn't attend, simply tell them you missed them at the last "worship clinic" and when you have another one, you will be sure to let them know.

3.) You can also always ask them for their opinion. "Let me ask you something real quick so I know exactly where you are coming from.... For you personally is worship more about what songs you like to sing or about worshiping in Spirit and Truth." The question itself should help them search their heart.

And as always, pray that God will allow you opportunities to teach people about worship. I have found that oftentimes the complaint itself is just God opening a door for me to educate someone!

[way2tyred]

We have contemporary style worship on Sundays and a more traditional sound on Wednesdays. What I've found in our congregation is that the visible worship I see is directly related to not the style of music, but the amount. If I can scrounge up an acoustic and bass to go with our keys, people always worship more. When it's just keys I tend to feel like I'm just pulling them along. Unfortunately to me this means that people are just being swept along by the emotion that the instruments build.

[milepost13]

that seemed to be the norm for us way back when we offered both a traditional and a contemporary service. For the most part, those who are more attracted to traditional music also seem to be more attracted to a more reverent style of worship/church.

When I teach my worship class at our church, I lead my "students" through a "worship style" assessment...it's set up very similar to a personality assessment and allows people to get a better idea of what kinds of worship styles they prefer and why. The vast majority of our church members are mostly attracted to a celebratory, creative, engaging style of worship, both in and out of church, which makes sense since that's what our church's worship style is.

Unless you've actually seen more evidence (than simply solemn singing) of a hard heart, I'd simply chalk the reverent worship up to personal preference and leave it at that. More than likely, the same people who go to your traditional service have similar thoughts (as your thoughts about the traditional folks) about people in your contemporary service.

Having said all of that, we dropped our traditional service when it was evident that those attending were only attending because of their personal preferences and not because they wanted to help our church fulfill her purpose. When we began that traditional service, we explained to our members who were attending that it would only continue if it grew...of course, most of those attending were the older generations, and, unfortunately, they did nothing to invite/bring their unchurched friends. I think it lasted for less than 6 months before we dropped it.

Nate

[fmckinnon]

Nate,
I'd love to hear more about the class - maybe you could consider writing a homepage article for TWC, educate on how to do a class like that, and include .pdf files of the assessment? I'd love to see it ... LOVE to!

[milepost13]

It's a class I teach at our church about the foundations of Biblical Worship. About 4 hours worth of material, geared for a small group of about 6-14 people. It's part of our discipleship strategy...if you're familiar with the Purpose Driven model, you might know it as CLASS 501 (although I've yet to find anyone else, including Saddleback as of a few years ago who is teaching this particular class). I put the material together, although I certainly borrowed greatly from several good sources. I've shared the material with a lot of other worship/church leaders and am more than happy to share it with anyone here. Let me know how you'd like me to go about it.

Nate

[Keep Singing]

I'd really like to see that article as well!

[fmckinnon]

Nate,
We do 101-401, with our own revisions, based on Saddleback's stuff.

Seriously, I think we could really benefit from some of this info, if you'd be willing to consider starting a series of articles (big ask, I know!) ... do you have a wordpress login for the homepage area?

[milepost13]

I'd be more than happy...I don't think I have a login for the wordpress.

Nate

[Robinskeys]

I'm very interested in finding out more about the class as well! I'm about 98% sure that those actually willing to attend it would be the same people who are up for anything worship-wise anyway as long as it glorifies God and increases His kingdom, but I'm very happy to give it a shot!!!!

We are already about to do our 'own' Praise Team "conference" with a dvd series that I ordered from the songselect site... Can't remember the name of it, but it looked like a good idea when I watched excerpts on youtube. ;)

[Wannabe a Worshiper]

Nate, I would also like to see what you have. I hope to begin an elective class on biblical worship soon, and I'm looking for the right things to use. Sounds like this may be what I need.

[Joel Hinck]

I agree with Nate that it's a dangerous attitude to look down on others and judge their authenticity based purely on their external worship style. Does clapping and hand raising really indicate a deeper relationship with God?

[Robinskeys]

I agree with Nate that it's a dangerous attitude to look down on others and judge their authenticity based purely on their external worship style. Does clapping and hand raising really indicate a deeper relationship with God?

Oh absolutely not!!!!!
HOWEVER the condemning of such acts that I have been dealing with - aka: those that consider clapping, raising of hands, dancing before God as "unbiblical and worldly", and have nothing but devisiveness and "we've never done it that way" to bring to the table, is definitely indicative of shallow traditionalism ruling the worship experience over authentic freedom of worship being permitted to prevail!

(And I do believe that more people are unwilling to, or ever fearful of, worshiping with emotional variety due to a supreme lack knowledge of what IS indeed permitted Biblically, as the Holy Spirit has very much been squelched in so many churches, and for so very long! When we're in love with Jesus it's going to show at least a little at some point!!!! There is at least going to be a huge smile for how wonderful He is every so often! kwim?! )

[Joel Hinck]

Gotcha. I agree completely. In the original post, I guess I thought you were indicating that the lack of clapping/hand raising meant that the Spirit was "being quenched," which just isn't true. Sorry if I misread you, I didn't pick up that people were campaigning against a more open, physical worship style. That's too bad, but I guess if David had to put up with it... (2 Sam 6:16) :rolleyes:

[RyanDC]

When we're in love with Jesus it's going to show at least a little at some point!!!! There is at least going to be a huge smile for how wonderful He is every so often! kwim?! )

Exactly. Thank you.

Sadly, some people seem content to have no external evidence of a relationship with Christ other than filling up a pew at a worship service.

There are some members where I attend that only speak up during a business meeting when monetary issues are raised. Sorry, I know that was slightly off point, but I had to get that off of my chest.

The traditional hymns offer a great deal of theological truth and majestic themes, but sometimes it seems we are singing about something boring, such as a turtle crossing the road, rather than the Almighty God of all creation.

[kristamiller86]

"Honestly, the problem isn't with the music or the style. It's a problem of the heart of complainers. Worship style is simply a catalyst that smart complainers have found to inject their misery… Ask them if their complaint is biblical or a personal unwillingness" -----Robinskeys


great response Robinskeys

[Don_Z]

One should never forget where one comes from and although we often get pulled in several directions by everyone's preferences we should always keep in mind that the music and the performance does not really matter. We are really here to praise God.

The six kiss of death words for a church are "That's how we've always done it." These words do not allow a church to grow and feel the need of the people within its walls. Equally as dangerous though is the phrase, "We break from all traditional ties." Purely contemporary churches loose out too! You loose out by building a church on sand with no foundation. There has to be a mix.

You can find worship in traditional music. YOU are the leader and therefore decide on the arrangements. There are re harmonizations that can be done of classic hymns that can add a 'blended' feel to an old voicing. In turn you are in fact educating those that are more rigid in their worship by introducing a more emotional balance. Likewise, you would be showing the younger, contemporary group that traditional hymns can be praise worthy and therefore bringing the two groups together.

I am not a fan of the split services. I feel that you split the church and therefore do things in opposition to what our mission is. That is only my opinion, of course. I like blended services because it helps educate both generations on how to worship together. The older brings the traditions, the younger the emotion.

[Don_Z]

Something to think about...

I really had not thought about this much when I was looking at it from the standpoint of leading worship. My function has always been to prepare the hearts of my congregation for the Message to come. When I started in my candidacy for ministry myself and began studying the other player's handbook, so to speak, I began seeing a white elephant in the room that I had totally missed.

Worship, in essence, is how one approaches God. When we look at the new service styles, we are seeing people that are looking for an emotional connection with the Father. The worship style of contemporary services puts a person in touch with feelings and the music declares our relationship to Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit. This is what this generation is searching for. They need to feel God's all embracing love and for that reason contemporary services fit nicely.

If you drop back a bit and think about the intellectual or the person that believes God is GOD and has lived their lives disciplined and regimented (WWII generation, military, men, academics, etc..), you will find a chain of command when they think of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit in relationship to us. Although they firmly believe that God loves them, they believe that there is a boundary of respect and awe that should not be crossed. The phrase "fear the Lord, God" comes to mind when we talk about these folks. They worship God as the creator of the universe, the savior of their souls and one that should be intellectually sought after and studied faithfully. They are not emotionally connected with many things in their lives in an outward fashion yet hold loyalty and honor very high.

The hymns that we sing from the traditional books are declarative. They pronounce God's greatness, Jesus' gifts and teaching and the Holy Spirit's constant guidance. Those that have lived that music their entire lives do not and probably will never get the same emotional charge as the newer generations that sing the emotionally charged praise and worship songs. It does not make one better or one worse. only different.

My suggestion is that if you are singing "How Great Thou Art" and you feel the Holy Spirit leading you to raise your hands, do so. Likewise with any of the traditional hymns. It will not be the older generations or those that find comfort and security in singing things the way they do currently that you will find peace, make that change yourself. You may even find that learning the depth of what people think about God will make the width of the emotional journey all that much sweeter.

Peace,

Don