Prayer for my church

[musicianinthestates]

Its not often I request prayer, and even less often from those I don't even know. I'm just very concerned for my church.

In the past year, my church has gone through a few key leadership changes. This is always a touchy subject, and an opportunity for the devil to attack, and boy is he! :eek: It was brought to my attention this week that there are staff members attempting to cross departments and gain control over more than their position needs to control. In a church where we used to be told we're all equally important and needed whether we're sweeping floors or delivering sermons, the atmosphere is all business and chain of command here, sometimes to the extent I want pass out military rank pins to visually denote the issues of those who think their better or more important than everyone else. The "petty officers" of the ship are expected to stay quiet or "jump ship". I can honestly say that I never felt like nothing until these leaders took over, and other people started showing their true colors.
In addition to this most recent problem, there are other issues: (1) teams adopting and enforcing rules because of one person, then dropping the rule (not officially, but actions speak louder than words) after that person quit the team(the rule hasn't been enforced since this person quit, i.e. action louder than words); (2) team members squelching the opinions of those who disagree with them- using mildly hostile verbal attacks, harshly telling some people "its not about you" then saying nothing when another uses the reasoning "I just wanted to do it"; (3) people who try to keep the leadership in their circle of close friends so they have more sway with the way things get done; (4) two-faced people who acted like they loved the former pastor and his wife, then bad mouthed them to the new pastor; (5) a pastor who set a strict rule for a team, then changed the rule less than a month after a team leader change, and; (6) who states things should be done one way then recreates that departments leadership to be opposite their previously stated expectations.... I could go on, but I won't. I don't if this sounds like a selfish prayer, and I apologize if it does, but, will you all please pray with me that these people are removed or see fit to remove themselves before they destroy the former pastor's near decade of hard work and ruin the potential that lies within this church? I don't want to give out location info or names in case others from the church view this board, but, I will close with some random letters representing those that need to go to save the integrity of the church.

JCHABWJBOLLGWPBJEGEGP

[yod1948]

I stand with you in prayer.


Sounds like pride and selfish ambition is running rampant there....

[Mortis_Alaska]

This really burdens me and I will pray, and ask others in my circle as well.

[LoriBiddle]

I stood in my kitchen last night talking with a young man dressed in Goth attire, who described his disappointment with The Church. He explained a few things that he had gone through and I assured him that churches are simply made up of imperfect people...

I am so sad when I hear about God's people struggling like he was, and as you are! I will pray

[musicianinthestates]

I stood in my kitchen last night talking with a young man dressed in Goth attire, who described his disappointment with The Church. He explained a few things that he had gone through and I assured him that churches are simply made up of imperfect people...

I am so sad when I hear about God's people struggling like he was, and as you are! I will pray

Thank you all for your prayers, keep'em coming!

I understand nobody's perfect, I don't really expect perfection, but I do expect consistency, equality and fairness. When I'm told things are going to be a certain way, I expect it to go that way...

Example. I was told by our new lead pastor that we wouldn't be advertising outside our own church for a band leader because that leads to a "difference of opinion" between the newbie and the theology of our denomination, of which there are 17 other churches in our county. However, a few months later (3-4) our youth pastor opted to move on to another church.... what's in the classifieds a couple weeks later? An advertisement for our church's need for a new youth leader! Not only was it allowed to be outside the church, but taken to the general public of our community!! How can you keep hiring "in house" for a musician, but hire out for a new leader to shepherd the teens?!

[WorshipFocus]

I humbly suggest a time of "self examination" and then a confrontation. If the confrontation doesn't work... take two or three witnesses and confront again... if that doesn't work... well you know the rest of the story.

I will be praying for you. Remember the worst thing you can do is to gossip about it. I'm not talking about here on the forum, Im talking about those at church who side with you. A brief discussion with those who you take as witnesses or a group of wise men in your church from whom you might seek counsel should be about it.

Hoping the best for you and the church.

[fmckinnon]

I agree - pray, pray, and pray. Then, schedule an appointment with the lead pastor, and just present your concerns, and give specific examples (in love, honor, and respect) of what you are seeing and hearing. Communication is the key here. Open lines of clear, respectful communication and see what happens.

[musicianinthestates]

I humbly suggest a time of "self examination" and then a confrontation. If the confrontation doesn't work... take two or three witnesses and confront again... if that doesn't work... well you know the rest of the story.

I will be praying for you. Remember the worst thing you can do is to gossip about it. I'm not talking about here on the forum, Im talking about those at church who side with you. A brief discussion with those who you take as witnesses or a group of wise men in your church from whom you might seek counsel should be about it.

Hoping the best for you and the church.

The first encounter with the pastor led simply to the statement, "If you're unhappy, the answer may be for you to step back and take a break. You may be burning out on ministry." Basically I took it as the Christian version of "if you don't like it, quit."

[Smitty]

I am right there with you, musician, as some of what you describe is taking place in my church as well...not to the level you illustrate...but pressure and frustration are definitely mounting!

Fred, Russ, Nate, Yod...we all respect your opinions and counsel. Can you chime in? if we are accountable to our leaders, are they not also, in some way, accountable to us?

Smitty

[Smitty]

Musician:

Its been a couple weeks since your OP.

Any news? Progress? Developments?


Smitty

[musicianinthestates]

Musician:

Its been a couple weeks since your OP.

Any news? Progress? Developments?


Smitty

Not much to speak of, which also speaks volumes about the leadership. The issue of the rule being enforced for one person and then dropped has been addressed and we are working to resolve and bring that rule back consistently.

One new negative development. The pastor had a pre-meeting meeting, with about half the group present, 3 days before the full group meeting. That allowed for half the group to discuss and get on the same page before the full team meeting, meaning they were able to gang up on the rest of the team to support the vision and ideas, and shoot down any negative reactions to what has been proposed. - and this from the same pastor who told us 6 months earlier not to gang up on the leader because half the group was dissatisfied with the leadership.

Other than that, another staffer approached the pastor with certain issues that I mentioned in the OP. The response was, "the way things are going is the way I want them to go." I fear there's not much ground to be gained in this battle.

If more people see this leadership the way I have come to, and connect the dots to see the big picture, I fear this church will fall, or worse, succeed with a new generation thinking its okay to have these double standards. Keep praying, I sure am.

[Smitty]

I'm more than a little bummed by your progress report...because I see a lot of the same "games" being played in the church where I serve...

Musicians and vocalists who don't show for rehearsal, but still expect...and are allowed...to play or sing.

One standard for the worship leader and vocalists, and another for the band.

"My way or the highway" - no room, or encouragement, for creative input.

BORING setlists - we do the same songs, the same way...everytime we play them.

Just curious...what would you do differently?

Smitty

[musicianinthestates]

I'm more than a little bummed by your progress report...because I see a lot of the same "games" being played in the church where I serve...

Musicians and vocalists who don't show for rehearsal, but still expect...and are allowed...to play or sing.

One standard for the worship leader and vocalists, and another for the band.

"My way or the highway" - no room, or encouragement, for creative input.

BORING setlists - we do the same songs, the same way...everytime we play them.

Just curious...what would you do differently?

Smitty

The new leader has started, slowly, but started nonetheless, to ask my opinions and advice, which are actually being taken. woo-hoo!

One thing I would try to do is nip this leadership inner circle in the bud. There is room for creative ideas, but, any ideas have to be voiced by the right person, or its not a good idea. I've presented several ideas in the past which were rejected, discouraged, or ignored. now the same things have been presented by someone else, and are being accepted.

As far as rules go...
my philosophy differs from this leadership in that; they want subjective rules - to be judged at the leader's discretion, while I say that scripture (ephesians 5) calls us to "be imitators of God", and He didn't say;
"I'd prefer if you didn't put others before Me, but I can see some cases where you may want or need to do that."
He said
"You shall have no other gods before me."

He didn't say;
"I'd rather you not have sex with someone you're not married to, but use your own discretion."
He said
"You shall not commit adultery."

We need to imitate His rule making prowess and spell everything out to the letter so ALL members know what's expected, what to expect if they don't follow through, and how they can redeem themselves. No interpretation needed.

And, though claiming a desire to be consistent, this leader has separated themselves from the proposed rules, so its one standard for themselves, one for the other singers, and one for the musicians. three standards, one team. I say all should be included in all rules. No "I'm the leader, I'm special, I'm above the others cause I am chosen, and paid." We have proven backups available, and they're not being utilized, which I understood under the former pastor's preaching schedule, but now the lead pastor is preaching 75% of the time, a little change up one Sunday a month, or even 2 every other month, wouldn't be detrimental to the "continuity of the service". That was the reason given for having the same face every single week, now its just an excuse. Leaders should show a team commitment and willingness to follow their own rules, its not a military where there's one commander behind a desk giving orders but not going into the field. Its a team. the leader is up on stage, or platform, or whatever the church calls it with the rest of the team. Remember the commercial, "I'm not just the president, I'm also a client." ;)

background
The former pastor's preaching schedule was something like this; week (1) - lead pastor, (2) - youth pastor, (3) - assoc. pastor, (4) assoc., (5) - lead, (6) - youth, (7) - lead, (8) - assoc., (9) - lead, (10) - youth, (11) - lead, (12) - lead.... occasionally lead would take more weeks, especially during lent and around other special times, but more often than not each pastor got one week a month in our service. The new lead pastor, since coming, has preached 7 weeks, 1 off, 6 weeks, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 3 on....... as of May 3, 44 sermons have been delivered in our service since the pastor's arrival, 33 have been delivered by that lead pastor.

[TruePraise]

I've presented several ideas in the past which were rejected, discouraged, or ignored. now the same things have been presented by someone else, and are being accepted.

That is hard to take, in my situation though, it seems to be the timing of the issue....but it is still hard to swallow when the stuff you wanted to do, but could not while you were in leadership, is now exactly what the new leadership wants to do, some of which they did not want to do when you were in leadership...

Of course, we were in such a mess when I was in leadership, I am not sure it would have been worth trying some of the stuff we talked about, and the stuff we did try did not "succeed". Sigh...i hope it does this time...

I have been thinking a lot about David...he had the dream of building the temple, but was not allowed....but it still got built, in God's time by God's man...

[musicianinthestates]

That is hard to take, in my situation though, it seems to be the timing of the issue....but it is still hard to swallow when the stuff you wanted to do, but could not while you were in leadership, is now exactly what the new leadership wants to do, some of which they did not want to do when you were in leadership...

Of course, we were in such a mess when I was in leadership, I am not sure it would have been worth trying some of the stuff we talked about, and the stuff we did try did not "succeed". Sigh...i hope it does this time...

I have been thinking a lot about David...he had the dream of building the temple, but was not allowed....but it still got built, in God's time by God's man...

That's a great point, but that was just an example of one way certain members hold the reins and only listen to certain people. Some of those ideas were rejected and then accepted within a month or two. There have also been times within a single conversation that person A states one thing, person B agrees, then person A does a 180 and disagrees with their own idea... WHAT!? yes that right. I had a conversation with the pastor, who talked about modernizing hymns. I said that one of the teams leaders and I talked about that also, and then the pastor, with almost a cringe on their face, said "if you do that though, you have to make it really obvious that's what you've done," in a very discouraging tone of voice. Then they proceeded to strongly encourage a 10 year written limit, which was lifted 4 months later for the newly chosen leader, who is in the inner circle of the church.

[WorshipFocus]

to the last poster... can you explain what you just wrote again in a little more detail. The part about modernizing hymns, the pastor's remark, and 10 year limit on what?

[musicianinthestates]

I sure can... try at least.

The pastor was speaking of their former church, and how they would use some modernized hymns during contemporary service. When I mentioned that another leader in our team, a person with a music degree and nearly a decade of worship leading experience, and I, had discussed doing just that, the pastor's disposition changed to that of concern. You know that squinty-eyed, teeth-gritting, look of a child about to get an injection? thats the kind of look I was gven. The remark in the former post, when combined with the look I received, seemed to be discouraging the idea of modernizing songs, which had just been stated as okay, but with that remark the conversation was led, by the pastor, to...

The 10 year limit
a general banning of any song written more than 10 years ago. You know "You Are My King" (amazing love)? copyright 1996, we weren't allowed to use it anymore. "Let it Rise" - 1997...out, gone, sayonara. "We Fall Down" - 1998 bye-bye, and it had just been learned at this pastor's request.

Its kind of off the topic, but its a good example of the leadership in this church, why I am so concerned for its future in the hands of such an unstable pastor. This is one of at least a half dozen cases of this kind of inconsistency, inequality, and unfair favoritism.

does that help?

[WorshipFocus]

Thanks... I was just trying get a better perspective of what exactly was going on. Wow! I mean WOW!

Reminds me of way back when I worked in retail. I had an idea one time to put all this merchandise on the top shelf for as far as the eye could see. I was told no and given a very good lesson on why this was such a bad idea. So I spent a LOT of time doing the top shelf different. Was pretty excited about finishing and how it turned out. Wouldn't you know, the same manager came by a few weeks later and told me to do it exactly how I had originally had the idea!!!!!! I was upset, angry, defeated, bewildered. When I brought it to his attention he told me that when I had originally suggested it, it was MY idea.... but NOW it was HIS. (Basically he was saying, he was delaying doing it until it could be HIS idea and HE could get the credit for it in front of his boss instead of me.) He said ideas that never get mobilized aren't worth anything and luckily for him, he was the one that decides when things get mobilized.

Not sure if that helps you or not, but.... just from my limited experience: Some people LIKE your idea, you just aren't allowed to DO IT because it would give you THE ATTENTION. So they delay doing it until it can become their idea. Basically stealing your creativity or having come up with it. As for me, I didn't care about the attention.... but obviously my manager did. Maybe yours does also?

[musicianinthestates]

GOOD things are starting to happen here, thanks for the prayers! Still a long way to go, keep it up if you would.