Questions to ask when looking for that next job

[ackparker]

Hi. My husband and I are looking for our first Worship Pastor/director/leader position - after being at our present church for 7 years. When we first started at our present church we were just volunteering and it grew from that to a full time position, where my husband was licensed and ordained as well.

Now, after MUCH prayer we are moving on - and searching for our next position. We have been sending out resume emails and getting some responses - and now a few serious ones. Since we've never done this before we'd love some advice on questions to ask - things to make sure and look for, etc.

Thanks so much!

[SaintLewis]

ALWAYS ask why the last person left or is leaving, and try to connect with the last person in your position...VERY IMPORTANT.

[El Ben]

These aren't necessarilly questions but these are things you should know without a shadow of a doubt before taking that next position. Also, keep in mind that I'm in my first position and I'm only 22. That being said, here are some things that I think you should definitely know:

1.) How does the pastor feel about the ministry of leading worship? Does he simply acknowledge that it's a necessary thing or is he passionate about it?
- for instance, my pastor is super-passionate about the worship/music ministry of our church.

2.) Is the pastor a leader? Will he mentor you, or will he just leave you to do your job, not bothering with you until you screw up?
- for instance, my pastor has a very hands-on approach to mentoring. He balances letting me make my own mistakes with protecting me from flubbing big time.

3.) What is expected of you? Does the buck stop at music and the surrounding ministries, or are you to be the jack-of-all-trades?
-for instance, I didn't come on staff as the worship leader of my church. I came on staff as the student pastor. I knew, however, that because we were a small church, I was going to have to wear many different hats. I had no problem with that, so there were no issues when I had to take over worship.

4.) Most importantly, does the pastor have a vision for the church and the surrounding area? If he does, how is it relevant to what God has called you to?

[BillyChia]

ackparker,
I'm also currently looking for a new worship ministries job as well. I'll tell you that I've been on staff at several churches and I've had some pretty negative experiences. The short of it was that I took the wrong job. To avoid that this time around I'm employing the following philosophies in my job search:

1. Be 100% unafraid to say, "no." A church can look great, but just because they offer you a job doesn't mean you should take it. The best case scenario would be have several job offers on the table and be able to pick the best one. Or say "no" to them all and do another round of interviews until I find the right church.

2. Find a place where I fit on the team. I care less about finding a church that already does a bunch of slick cool ministry and more about being on a team that I click with. (This goes along with Ben's comments on his pastor.) Clicking with the staff, especially the lead pastor is more important than being in a big church with exciting things going on. Ross Parsley says something to effect of, "The most important relationship in the church that the one between the lead pastor and the worship pastor."

3. Look for a church who is looking to add a good staff member not one who is looking to fill a position. This is an idea I got from Thom Rainer's "Breakout Churches" (great book) All of the breakout churches were successful in part because they used a different model for hiring staff. In most churches the model is: Youth Pastor leaves then hire a new youth pastor. Worship Leader leaves then hire a new worship leader. The breakout churches did not do this. Instead if the youth pastor left they asked, "Ok we not have X amount of resources available how can we spend it most effectively?" The most effective choice wasn't always to replace the person who left. Maybe the youth guy quit and they hired a new counseling pastor. You follow me? (If not just read "breakout churches")

I have no desire to replace the last guy or to try to fill someone else's shoes. I've done this before and it sucks. I want to be at a church that wants to hire me not a church who wants to hire a clone of the last guy.

I'm curious, how have you gone about your job search/what have you been looking for in a church?

[SaintLewis]

ackparker,
1. Be 100% unafraid to say, "no." A church can look great, but just because they offer you a job doesn't mean you should take it. The best case scenario would be have several job offers on the table and be able to pick the best one. Or say "no" to them all and do another round of interviews until I find the right church.

2. Find a place where I fit on the team...

3. Look for a church who is looking to add a good staff member not one who is looking to fill a position. )...

I have no desire to replace the last guy or to try to fill someone else's shoes. I've done this before and it sucks. I want to be at a church that wants to hire me not a church who wants to hire a clone of the last guy.



I hate to post 'AMEN', but these are VERY wise words, especially point #1...
it's my heart's passion to be in full-time music ministry one day, but I've turned down 3 job offers in the past 2 years, and even refused a number of interviews, and that is ALWAYS so very hard to do when you're so passionate about something, as I'm SURE you are. However, like Billy said, it's very important to be able to share a vision with those you're working with and to be a good 'fit'.

[ackparker]

Thanks guys for your great advice!

We have some pretty big bites right now - just really praying for what to do next.

[hiddentalent]

I all has to do with listening to the voice of God . I had the
opportunity to be a worship leader at a larger church but
instead I chose to work with a smaller church. It also depends
on the vision of the pastor and that both of you are on
the same page.

[russhutto]

I would also offer that working with a "staff-led" church as opposed to a more traditional "board-led" church is extremely beneficial.

My previous full-time worship/student pastor position was in a great church that was board-led. EVERYTHING had to be approved of and it took an act of congress at times to do the simplest things.

My current position is full-time student pastor/team pastor (associate) and I absolutely love it. We meet with all the staffers and LEAD the church. Decisions are pain-free and we all are "on-board" with the vision of our expression here.

I don't mean to slam board-led churches, but I think any place where the pastors are "leashed" is a difficult place to serve in. Instead of fearing for my paycheck if and when I ever made a mistake, now I feel like I have the freedom to dream big and really, truly pastor people.

Plus, we don't "vote" here. If you hold a vote, there are sides, and on side wins. That means we make people losers. Big decisions are made by the staff team WHO BY DEFAULT are in the lives of people, so there's no need to vote.

Oops...off my soap box now...sorry. :)

Just my 2 cents.

[BillyChia]

I would ask the Youth Pastor for directions to the Senior Pastor's house.

My wife and I are going to a young couples Bible study tonight at the house of Pastor K. from our church. We couldn't find him this morning to ask him directions so we asked another church staff member if they knew where Pastor K. was. Instead of telling us where he was they just gave us directions to his house!

Actually, he started to give directions and then another pastor helped out with specific street names. The fact was that all the pastors had been to each other's houses because they are friends. I think that's a sign of health.

In my last church staff position my wife and I never went to my pastor's house and he and his wife never came to ours.

[El Ben]

Never underestimate the awesome power of staff chemistry! Great example with the whole directions to the house thing, BC.

[ackparker]

thanks guys - appreciate all the great advice.

Today was our very last Sunday at our church - it was bittersweet for sure.

We are still seeking God's heart and direction - appreciate your prayers!!

[fmckinnon]

Wow - we certainly will continue to pray for you - keep us in the loop, OK?

[worshiptrench]

start theologically. make sure you can sign on their doctrinal statement. I was approached by Bent Tree Bible in Dallas (a great church, BTW) at the same time as NorthWood made contact with me (I was honest with each that both were talking to me). Pete asked me to read their doctrinal statement and they were hard-core pre-trib dispensationalists (me being a Pauline Doctrine of Election/amillenialist). He asked me to write a paper as to why I held that position and could I work in that environment. Granted, it could have worked but I would have always felt like a theological outsider there.

Now for the practical:

Who plans the service? Are you just the music guy/gal or worship designer. How hands on is the lead pastor in service structure?

What is a staff spouse's role in their church? What is expected of my family? Find out if there unspoken expectations, such as being at which functions, etc.

What is the actual ministry operating budget? Not what is on paper but how much did the guy before me get to spend? When I first came to NW they had a 18,000 on paper budget when they ran 800 (no salaries in that budget, purely operating). I got to spend like $8000 because they never got close to budget. Now fortunately, our exec pastor is a budgeting genius and we are actually ahead of budget for the last several years. (around $70,000 not including salaries in our operating worship budget as we run around 2500).

See if you can go out with other staff members on a couples date to get a feel for the chemistry of the team. See how natrual their relationships are and how involved they are in each others lives.

Just a few thoughts off the top.

[BillyChia]

Jordan,
Great points about theology.

When asking about how much the worship budget is, how do you know what is an appropriate amount? Is there a website or resource that gives averages for that sort of thing?

[worshiptrench]

I just call other churches that I respect of a similar size and ask what is their non-salary operating budget (and I ask if they are meeting budget that year and getting to actually spend that amount).