Choir-ish vocal styles...you know what I'm talking about

[ignite]

What do you worship leaders do with vocal styles that are better suited for choir? I have a friend who is a great singer, and once he's done with school might want to sing on our praise team. The problem is that his vocal style is very rigid and uptight. I've sung with him before and our two styles just don't mesh well at all. I would compare my style to that of a Tomlin/Crowder. I just had another female friend of mine leave our praise team who sang that way as well, but we just lived with it, and i'd like to not have to worry about that again.

I haven't had any formal training, so i can't teach vocals, i just sing it like i hear it :D So how would i remedy this should it come up again? What terms do I need to use to describe what I see and what I need?

[milepost13]

I understand what you're talking about, and agree that the two styles usually don't mesh well. I also believe that it is important for a band/worship team to have a stylistic identity(ies), which means that not all great musicians/vocalists are going to fit with your team (just like not all great children teachers are going to fit into your kids church team).

But, I've also found that, most good musicians/vocalists can change their styles either on purpose or not simply by hanging around other good musicians who play/sing with a different style.

If I were in your shoes, I'd have an open and honest conversation with this guy. I'd tell him that his skills are obvious, but to be able to serve in this particular ministry, he's going to have to be willing and able to change his style...give him the option of sitting in on your rehearsals for several weeks to find out if this is the right ministry for him.

Bottom line...there are a vast number of reasons that people don't fit into particular ministries...musical style is just one of them, and if you can think of it that way, it shouldn't be such a big deal to figure out. If he's got a servant's heart, and your church has a heart to give people opportunities to serve, he'll find the right ministry fit, with one team or another.

Nate

[fmckinnon]

ignite -
You said "I haven't had any formal training, so i can't teach vocals, i just sing it like i hear it" ... and I think you're on to something.

Many times, the "formal training" is what makes it sound so ... well ... "formal".

If vibrato is a big issue - have her do some excercies where you hold a note with no vibrato .. tell her/him that vibrato is simply not allowed - that you are "untraining" the need to use that all the time. Have them hold out their hand - and as they hold out the note - move the arm from left to right ... horizontally - as opposed to "up and down" like the vibrato would be.

Let him/her hear themselves, and compare to the recordings and "sound" of the style you are trying to match. Many times, they just need to be told "lovingly" that their style is better suited to a vocal solo or a choir ... and that if they can adapt their tone and style to the more modern sound you're looking for, you might could use them.

Whatever you do - MAKE SURE it's not a "right" or "wrong" thing .. just a stylistic preference, and tie that preference into the overall vision of the corporate direction - so it's not just YOU saying that YOU don't think it sounds good.

Hope that helps!
Fred

[Mike Darley]

I've found that people who are formally trained are usually great with harmonies. You said this was a guy. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've got a ton of ladies that sing harmony and only one other guy who can. I'd definitely work with him to have him relax on the vibrato (if that indeed is the issue), and have him sing harmonies with you on the more modern stuff. Not only will he be an asset as a harmony singer, but he'll be able to learn the style. I don't know if you guys sing hymns, but it would also be nice to have a stong classical voice on some of them.

[worshiptrench]

You can teach street singing to a trained person. They'll never sound quite as raw (because of some correct techniques that are ingrained ironically), but it can be done fairly quick.

Now to go the other way, a totally different story.

[psalmsandhymns]

Vowels are half the battle. Seriously. A trained choral singer is going to go for purer, more Latin vowels, while a more pop styled singer is going to sing vowels with the mouth much more closed. Country vowels... well, many of those are just plain ridiculous. (IMHO) ;)

Make sure you give him a recording of singers you'd like him to emulate. (Don't shoot for guys with very distinct vocals, go for some middle of the road singers.)

Also, make sure you look at the positives of the situation at the same time you're re-training the guy:
1) He probably knows how to breathe, so he's not going to be taking 87 breaths per phrase.
2) He probably knows how to sing in tune and blend with others, which are lessons that many, many singers can never quite learn.

[NLoomis]

2) He probably knows how to sing in tune and blend with others, which are lessons that many, many singers can never quite learn.

I'll mostly agree with the singing in tune part, but it's not always true they'll know how to blend. For instance, in opera, as near as I can tell, there is no such thing as blend. A person with an open ear will be able to learn this though. Just be patient and record him for his own benefit.

Nathan

[psalmsandhymns]

I'll mostly agree with the singing in tune part, but it's not always true they'll know how to blend. For instance, in opera, as near as I can tell, there is no such thing as blend. A person with an open ear will be able to learn this though. Just be patient and record him for his own benefit.

Nathan

Ah, yes. But traditionally choral-trained singers are quite different from operatic singers. Operatic singers are trained to stick out above everything else - like an 80-piece orchestra - while choral singers are trained to blend.

[NLoomis]

Ah, yes. But traditionally choral-trained singers are quite different from operatic singers. Operatic singers are trained to stick out above everything else - like an 80-piece orchestra - while choral singers are trained to blend.

True, I was just pointing that out because opera is a classical style. I myself learned to sing in chamber choirs and spent years unlearning those vowels, but at least I could sing in tune and blend.

Nathan

[psalmsandhymns]

True, I was just pointing that out because opera is a classical style. I myself learned to sing in chamber choirs and spent years unlearning those vowels, but at least I could sing in tune and blend.

Nathan

Cool, I just wanted to point out the difference in case anyone didn't know.

I appreciate lots of different kinds of music (I'm a classically trained horn player) but the one that I can't seem to get into is Opera. That would be sacrilege to many of my music professors in college, but I just can't get over the tone quality and the vibrato (and the tuning issues of many, many operatic singers). On the other hand, I love choral music and listen to it almost daily. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

[mikeymo1741]

With the exception of our lead singer (guy) and one BGS, all of our other singers sing with our choir as well, and we're fourtunate that a couple are altos and a couple are sopranos. So we get to have this natural harmony thing going. Sometimes we run into trouble when we don't want them to sing in parts.

A problem we have mixing non-choral singers with choral singers is that the choral singers will typically try to stay in their range, while the non-choral singers may try to cover more than one range. (covering alto and soprano, for example.) That can create some odd sounds. We don't have much of a problem with vibrato, but then, our choir does more modern music anyway, not hymns.

Work with your strengths here. Choral singers give you the opportunity to add a lot of dynamics to a song, if used properly. Make sure you are recording the team and playing it for them to listen to. Sometimes a singer can be their own worst critic. Also, I'd look at something like Paul Baloche's Worship Series, which has some great lessons for singers. There are clips on CCLITV.

[stephen_can_man]

Man this vibrato thing kills me! To me it just seems easy to start or stop vibrato because its so obvious when your doing it.

Anyway, any tips you guys have for teaching people to sing more modern would be a huge help. We have a vocalist on the team now who just struggles with this, and another who wants to join the team. I know that we can just tolerate it, but we use in-ears and I am a little tired of hearing the machine gun in my head.

[Mike Darley]

I'm with you as far as the vibrato thing. I don't see why people can't just stop when appropriate. It's one thing to have a little at the end of a held out note, but the "machine gun" vibrato on every word gets old quickly. That really quick vibrato absolutely drives me crazy. My wife used to have a pretty quick and pronounced vibrato. I told her to be careful with it and, guess what, she did. I just don't see why it's that hard to stop. Just cut it out.