no more conferences...there is a better way

[worshiptrench]

I am done with conferences...there is a better way to learn (http://www.worshiptrench.com/?p=84). I know that some will disagree with the article, but after having been to 100's of them either to teach or attend, I think I am about done going to attend. I will only teach if things are really kosher in their purpose and structure....

do you agree or disagree with the post?

[fmckinnon]

Good post, Jordan -

Nothing like 1-on-1. Conferecnes can still be great for networking, and sometimes they can just "fire you up" .. .plus, I like the worship in those big meetings ... but I think your "take-em-out-to-dinner" will also work.

It helps to be in an area where you have access to great people, too!

God bless,
Fred

[DebbieD]

There are really no conferences convenient to where I live - New York. I have been blessed with some people who have really taught me a lot about leading worship - one-on-one. I think the Lord provides and meets our needs where ever we are. Speaking of that - I should post about the teleconferences I have been "attending." They have been AWESOME!

You can sign up at http://worshipteleseminar.com/ and hear or download past sessions. GREAT stuff!

[russhutto]

I think we need both 1 on 1 and conferences for a multitude of reasons.

Some of them are:

Seeing transferable principles/concepts at work (both)
Networking (conferences)
Mentoring (1 on 1)
Being "part of the whole" occasionally (conferences)
Simplifying (1 on 1)
Training (both)
Hands on (1 on 1)
Heart to Hearts (1 on 1)
Being exhorted/edified by regional/national leaders (both)
Experiencing different creative worship environments (both)

...and so on.

I don't think we should choose one over the other, but recognize the benefits of doing both at the appropriate season.

[tony c]

I've been to a number of worship conferences in the past ... Kent Henry (a reallly long time ago), MorningStar Ministries, and Paul Wilbur, just to name a few, and I can honestly tell you that each one gave me more insight into worship and leading worship. In my former church, I really didn't have a worship leader to learn from. Basically, I joined the worship team, and BAM, because I was a professional musician before I got saved, two weeks later, I was appointed the worship leader. Not the ideal way necessarily to become one, but there was a hole, and God filled it with me.

Given that, worship conferences really were the only place for me to learn. My senior pastor and his wife helped me out as much as they could, God bless them for that, but neither one was a musician, and I needed additional guidance.

Boy, what I would have done for some one-on-one mentoring from an experienced worship leader!

Now, since I've been leading for 14 years, I have also been teaching my worship teams in ways that I wasn't taught one-on-one. I have tried to raise up others to lead worship.

What I'm trying to say is that I firmly believe that there should be a good balance between attending those worship seminars AND getting mentored.

If you've been blessed with experienced worship leaders, then PLEASE take advantage of all that heart and head knowledge. Ask them to mentor you. And if YOU are one of those experienced worship leaders, I would urge you to pick someone (or multiple someones) and work with them. Have them work with you in selecting songs. Show them what a "watercourse" is. Help them work with the "team". Call them worship disciples.

Also, go to worship conferences. Take your entire worship team with you. I live on northwest New Jersey, and I took my team to North Carolina for a Morning Star Worship Conference (AFTER I attended one myself) for about 4 days. Not only did we learn "stuff", my worship team became closer and bonded in ways that we might not have been able to otherwise.

[fmckinnon]

Tony -
Kent Henry, Morningstar ... two of my all-time faves! ... I agree wholeheartedly w/ your post!

[Klampert]

I can see a worship leader not wanting to go to conferences any more. I personally think that worship and resources are changing daily and it really cant hurt to be constantly barraging ourselves with the stuff.

with that said I think Tony nailed it. I think it is an important thing to do with your team.

[rkweblog]

I am done with conferences...there is a better way to learn (http://www.worshiptrench.com/?p=84). I know that some will disagree with the article, but after having been to 100's of them either to teach or attend, I think I am about done going to attend. I will only teach if things are really kosher in their purpose and structure....

do you agree or disagree with the post?

You must consider this conference. The BEST learning environment. Imagine talking WITH the author, speaker or presenter rather than being talked AT. I have been to all the big ones and hip ones...this really redefines what it is to learn from a conference experience. Now it is opened to churches of all sizes. (No, I get nothing for this plug but your thanks if you actually end up going!).:cool:

http://www.recreateconference.com

[rkweblog]

You must consider this conference. The BEST learning environment. Imagine talking WITH the author, speaker or presenter rather than being talked AT. I have been to all the big ones and hip ones...this really redefines what it is to learn from a conference experience. Now it is opened to churches of all sizes. (No, I get nothing for this plug but your thanks if you actually end up going!).:cool:

http://www.recreateconference.com

and....I agree with the post somewhat.. that most conferences are limited in what they can do...but I always find a way to learn from events. :) This all depends on attitude, season in life/ministry and if the conference really is there to serve the church!

[rkweblog]

and....I agree with the post somewhat.. that most conferences are limited in what they can do...but I always find a way to learn from events. :) This all depends on attitude, season in life/ministry and if the conference really is there to serve the church!

one more thing...I learn so much from hanging out with people who do what I do (lead worship that is)

[El Ben]

Very true. Not to blow hot air up Fred's hindquarters, but thirty minutes spent hanging out with him is thirty minutes of solid gold. I've probably learned more about the ministry of worship (as it relates to the area I'm in) from him in the time I get to hang out with him than I've learned in the last couple of years.

But then, old guys like Fred are good for stuff like that. :D



Actually, a funny thing we were talking about at our "Regional Mega Ultra Super Worship Leader Get-Together/Lunch/Fellowship/Conglomerate" (©[theworshipcomunity.com 2007] ™theworshipcommunity.com) is that worship-leaders almost have the shelf-life of a supermodel. Anything after thirty and you're a veteran. I thought it was pretty funny...well, maybe you had to be there. :rolleyes:

[Adam Ogden]

Hey Guys-

I think There are tons of ways to learn...to gain knowledge about what it is that we all do...But I think there is still a high value for the worship conference setting. I lead a team of 10-12 people every year to the Willow Arts Conference in Chicago. This team is hand picked every year, and is comprised of producers, vocalists, band members, technicians, drama actors, dance team members, etc. Now, while I can honestly say that I didn't get a single thing out of the classes I took at the conference, I still consider it a complete success, and here's why:

- The time I got to spend with my own team....getting to know them BEYOND what they do at the church, and having real conversations with each other, past "stand here" or "play a Ab here for 2 bars" or "standby lighting"...just doing life together.
- The chance to network with other people doing the same thing you are...at churches both larger and smaller than you....people who can help you do what you want to do, and people who are looking to do what you do. There is no one person who can pour that much information into you, about that many different topics (music, leadership, technical arts, dance, drama, etc).
- The chance to give back to your team. Providing them the opportunity to grow in their abilities. They will hear something, and be impacted by something that you may not.
- Lastly, I believe there is a HUGE value to getting away, or "retreating". My boss here often tells the story of the old Russian flag, that has a hammer and a sickle on it. Used for two very different things, but they have one similar thing in common: You can't continue to push them, and expect results. You can't push a hammer against a nail continuously, and expect the nail to penetrate the wood. In order for it to be effective, you must constantly pull back, and hit it again. Pull back, hit it again with a fresh force. Pull back, and hit it again. WE are that way. Ministry goes 100mph for most of us, and there is a point that we can't keep pushing anymore...or at least our pushing becomes non-effective....before we need to pull back...or retreat, and prepare ourselves to go again. For me, the conference/retreat is the chance to do just that.......get away from my everyday duties, rest, recharge, and re-engage.

1-on-1 times is invaluable, there is no doubt about that. But you can have that conversation in the midst of fast-paced ministry, and not allow it to sink in, simply because you don't have the time or environment to. I think conferences are more than the or seminars or sessions.....they are a full experience.....the meals shared together....the opportunity to break down congregation size and denomination walls to talk with and help each other....to get out of the normal environment, and recharge.....all of these things, and still more I haven't listed...to me....still makes the conference experience a very worthwhile endeavor.

That's my 2 cents...Maybe I should stay in the tech area..... :S

[Klampert]

You make a good point and a good tangent.

Does anybody here do worship retreats?

[fmckinnon]

not yet .. but it's a great idea .. something I'd like to do. We are taking an all-staff retreat for 3-4 days in October .. I look forward to that!

[Klampert]

Ive been thinking about doing a worship retreat for a bunch of worship people in my denomination in the north east...so for about 10 churches and just worshiping and fellowshiping for 2 or 3 days.

[fmckinnon]

I've been thinking that this thread is interesting ... b/c w/ the growth pattern we're seeing here .. I can envision a "TWC Conference" next year ... (grin)

[Klampert]

uh yeah of course...that would be one amazing event for sure...
hook me up with some backstage passes to the fred mckinnon show!

[fmckinnon]

eeek - that would be nasty ... but it would be fun to have faces, hugs, coffee, etc., w/ our new friends!

[Klampert]

ha ha...I just want a cool little backstage pass on a necklace with your head on it.

but yeah it would be very cool...time to start planning.
I've got a big back yard :D

[El Ben]

I want Fred merch! Fred t-shirts! Fred keychains! Fred postcards!

[Klampert]

see thats what Im saying...all with just his head...

I want a fred head shaped guitar

[tony c]

So, should I start saving up my frequent flyer points to get to the TWC conference?

[fmckinnon]

I think that would be a good idea!

[El Ben]

I'll be selling these for a ridiculously inflated price:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa285/benjamin_harrell/FredT-Shirt.jpg

[dtpuga]

Ben it is abundantly clear from your forum activity rate and your most current post here that:

YOU DON'T HAVE A REAL JOB

What do you actually do at CRCSSI?

[worshiptrench]

We do two mandatory attendance get togethers a year. A winter retreat where we cast vision, do a serious ministry evaluation, and decide on our goals for the year. One year it is just my captains (audio, visual, stage design, band, and vocal captains plus brent, cristian and myself). The next year it is ministry wide. That is our rotation.

In the Fall we do a worship clinic where I would bring in a friend (sam perry, dave c. or somebody). Friday night we'd do a worship time where they led and we were just worshipers with no execution pressures upon us. I'd have the guest teach on an aspect of worship theology. Then Sat morning, we break out into clinics. We haven't done this in a couple of years and probably should again soon.

I still travel and lead both these types of retreats for several of my friends each year (unofficial consulting is what we call it...i'll help anyway i can). Also, if i remember to, I'll post up our yearly evaluation questions for you guys to hack on worshiptrench.com.

[Klampert]

OH wow...that is sweet...I want one..


I'll be selling these for a ridiculously inflated price:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa285/benjamin_harrell/FredT-Shirt.jpg

[Klampert]

That is great. sounds like you really have a great vision. does everybody enjoy those trips? Do you come home with new music?

[chrismoncus]

HEY! I get royalties if you're gonna use a picture I took (http://worshipunderthestars.com/photo-gallery/?file=Worship%20Under%20the%20Stars%202005/DSC04000.jpg). :)

Gosh, I've gotten a lot better (http://flickr.com/photos/chrismoncus/sets/72157594502714656/) since 2005.


I'll be selling these for a ridiculously inflated price:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa285/benjamin_harrell/FredT-Shirt.jpg

[fmckinnon]

HAHAHAHA ... Ben, will you accept PayPal? That's the scariest thing I've ever seen!

Me thinks Travis is just jealous 'cause he has slave drivers cracking the whip at SSCC ... and covets El Ben's Photoshop glory.

[fmckinnon]

<<< ----- >>>
I always have to get the last word .. that being said ... "time to get thread back on track .. worship conferences or not worship conferences (in general), lol!

[El Ben]

Actually, Fred, I DO accept paypal, and just so you know, I created that little wonder with Microsoft Paint. My free trial of photoshop ran out AGES ago. Like I say all the time, I'm the king of ghetto-rigging.

Also, you've got me really excited about maybe going to the National Worship Leader's Conference.

That was my attempt of putting the thread back on topic. Did it work?

[dtpuga]

Let it be noted, I have already privately apologized to El Ben for my previous 'too much time on your hands' comment. Let me now publicly apologize.

Turns out that sarcasm doesn't translate well into web text.

I am fully aware that Ben does more than his fair share of work. He just also happens to be an incredible multitasker and very efficient as I now know. HaHa.

Humbly,
Travis

[wyf4lyf]

I hear what you're saying, but I've got to tell you, the only way I was mentored in worship leading was through conferences. I never really had one-on-one mentoring. It was hard...so the yearly conference at the Anaheim Vineyard was my LIFELINE back in the early and mid-90s when I was just starting out. I did eventually meet people along the way whom I could call or email and pick their brain. But conferences were really important to me in my early years as a worship leader.

Now that I'm a worship pastor and training up new leaders, I love doing one-on-one with them and also taking then to conferences with me where we can process things together and learn together.

As with most things in life...it's both-and, not either-or.

Just my 2 cents...
Nina



I am done with conferences...there is a better way to learn (http://www.worshiptrench.com/?p=84). I know that some will disagree with the article, but after having been to 100's of them either to teach or attend, I think I am about done going to attend. I will only teach if things are really kosher in their purpose and structure....

do you agree or disagree with the post?

[leastofall]

Thanks for the link Debbie I'm looking forward to seeing how this works.

[C Hutcheson]

Walked outside, saw the beauty of the earth, and started praising. Anyone with a proper view can worship & be thankful - we just need to get the blinders off our eyes & see Daddy & His blessings for what they are.

Maybe worship conferences should be about learning to get our eyes OFF the world? We make things so difficult, don't we?

Peculiarly, I heard a well renowned African worship guy share once that he'd "discovered" that God loves male harmonies and His presence comes in when there's male harmonies. Hmm... Though an interesting concept, it seems as though the gentleman was saying that God flows more through a physical state or through the medium of "male harmonies". I wonder where this guy got this revelation? I remember thinking that, simplistically, could it not also be said that God's anointing flows more strongly through music groups with brass? That's the alter version of the concept I was hearing. Ahhhh, opinions!!!

Conferences can be good. I've never felt a particular calling to go or be a part of them. The last one I attended was a Kent Henry conference in Ohio which was good, but not life-changing. Different people are at different places in their lives, so conferences may be for certain folks.

Fred & I went to an Integrity Hosanna conference in Lakeland, Florida back in '91, I think (or was it '92?) Some of the things I remember most were that huge curtain coming up on stage and exposing the choir at the beginning of the worship service there at Carpenter's Home Church (a cool thing for us small town boys), the bass player busting a string, and the incredibly hard rain we experienced on the way down. I did get prayed for by Michael Coleman, though! Could I tell you what I learned at that conference? I don't remember a thing, but it was cool seeing Kent Henry literally flow in, sit at the piano and just GO! That was inspiring, seeing a guy walk in, sit down at the piano, and you could tell that he'd been "in" all day! You couldn't help but jump in with him. Ken was already in the presence of God, so he just kept on going, and we jumped in with him!

What are your thoughts on that conference, Fred? What do you remember about it?

[fmckinnon]

Hey Chuck -

Long time no see! I do vaguely remember it ... like you, I remember Michael Coleman - I remember God using him to prophetically speak to me, and it was an encouraging word, but a stern rebuke at the same time, and that big tall man, towering over me .. those eyes .. I can still see them ... I heard from God that night, and it changed my life.

As for Kent Henry, is there ever a time when he's NOT in? :-)

[solidwalnut]

I am done with conferences...there is a better way to learn (http://www.worshiptrench.com/?p=84). I know that some will disagree with the article, but after having been to 100's of them either to teach or attend, I think I am about done going to attend. I will only teach if things are really kosher in their purpose and structure....

do you agree or disagree with the post?

As has already been said, different seasons for different people and their needs/wants. No conference is going to be the be-all and end-all knowledge (be-there-or-risk-not-getting-any-good-info-for-the-rest-of-your-life!).

But, I'm happiliy attending a video workshop:

Integrity Worship Summit
Live via video feed at
Calvary Community Church
(Phoenix, AZ)

Nov. 2 – 3 , 2007
Friday: 12:00 – 4:00pm, Saturday: 8:30am – 3:30 pm

Live Worship: Don Moen, Michael W. Smith, Israel Houghton and Paul Baloche

Teaching and Panel Discussions with Darlene Zschech, Don Moen, Michael W. Smith, Israel Houghton and Paul Baloche

along with other topics, etc.

Zero interaction with the presenters, but it will still be valuable to hear from top worship leaders.

And since I've been playing in church forever but I just began worship leading, this will be great info for me. As a musician, I'm a huge fan of these people!

Steve

[janowen66]

First of all, I would have absolutely been sunk in my early minsitry years without conferences. I have met friends there,learned some very basic things but I have also - maybe most importantly - been encouraged in my calling and challenged to keep stretching and growing. They give me a great opportunity to just sit in worship as well, with like minded people. On the other hand, I can feel overwhelmed by what I see and hear. Who hasn't attended a big conference and left feeling "I will never open my mouth to sing into a mic again!".

The VERY BEST training I have ever received - and am presently in the middle of - are the classes offered by Integrity Worship Institute. They are one week intensives (five of them) offered in different places, mainly Mobile, Alabama and Virginia Beach, Virginia. They are offered for college credit, but I just take them. I cannot tell you how totally invaluable they have been! Not cheap but worth every penny. Check it out:
http://www.integrityworshipinstitute.org/

[chrisfromcanada]

I've definitely had times of being "conferenced out" but I do see value in them - lots of the good things have been posted about already here.

One thing I make sure to do when I'm at a conference is have lunch with friends from other churches in my region who are at that conference. At Willow in June we had 10 or so worship guys from churches in Ontario get together for dinner one night - it was awesome.

Stuff like that becomes a bit of a bridge between the "bigness" of a conference experience and the "smallness" of direct relationships whose impact can last for years and years.

[Joseph]

Tony!! You Rock Man. Your post moved me. thanks for sharing your heart.