Staying Current

[carguy1]

One of pastor’s objectives in our contemporary services is to stay “relevant.” He has often said that he wants people to come into the church and hear the kind of stuff that they could hear on the radio. Well, obviously one way to do this is to listen to the local Christian radio stations. The only problem with that is that I live between Orlando and Tampa, both of which have great Christian radio stations. Ok, so now you’re asking yourself; self, how is that a problem. Well it isn’t, except that I can’t really pick up either of them very well. So, I end up either listening to my Ipod, or the Christian radio station on XM radio. It seems that XM plays a different mix then what the local stations play, and they don’t seem to have a very long play list. Anyways, how do you stay current with what is going on in Christian music and in the world of praise and worship. Thanks for your help.

[Stevie Nature]

Anyways, how do you stay current with what is going on in Christian music and in the world of praise and worship. Thanks for your help.

The words......the worship community.

Besides that you can pick up the Christians stations online. Go to their websites and listen.

[travisham]

You might also check out what some other ministries are doing. 722.org (http://722.org) might be a good place to start.

-travis

[russhutto]

Migh I suggest occasionally sampling some "secular" stations as well?

If the idea is to stay relevant to those who are coming in to the service, wouldn't it make sense to possibly be relevant to the percentage of people who might come in that are NOT listening to Christian radio?

Food for thought.

[milepost13]

Migh I suggest occasionally sampling some "secular" stations as well?

If the idea is to stay relevant to those who are coming in to the service, wouldn't it make sense to possibly be relevant to the percentage of people who might come in that are NOT listening to Christian radio?

Food for thought.

My thoughts exactly. Unless your church is into sheep stealing, you're not going to be relevant to very many guests by listening to styling your music after only Christian music.

We don't have a local Christian station here, and I'm glad for it, for two reasons:

1) Very few of our church people listen to much Christian music during the week, outside of what they buy for themselves...this means that they rarely come to me with a song suggestion, and they always like our new music cause they haven't been brainwashed by the crap.

2) It gives me and the rest of our band and church a lot of opportunity to listen to "secular" music and keep a close feel for what our community is listening to and attracted to.

Nate

[carguy1]

So how do you then use what you hear on the secular stations to influence what you play in the service? Are you writing your own songs, or rewriting songs to fit what is relevant? Or do you use this to decide what Christian songs to play.

[milepost13]

"Are you writing your own songs, or rewriting songs to fit what is relevant?"

We don't write any of our own stuff right now. We're arranging songs to fit the musical tastes of the culture of our community.

"Or do you use this to decide what Christian songs to play."

Yes. We also use it to decide what "secular" songs to play, but that's another thread altogether.

Nate

[carguy1]

Cool. I fear my view has been a bit too narrow.

[milepost13]

Cool. I fear my view has been a bit too narrow.

Well, it's impressive that you asked a question, got some unexpected responses, and are willing to grow. Most people would have argued or ignored until they got the answers they were looking for.

Nate

[russhutto]

Yeah, it's not necessarily trying to "be" more secular to be relevant, as much as it is being aware of what is relevant to your specific community. I love the idea of taking people out and asking them what their favorite songs are. Very nice. But make sure that's not all you do as you'll want to also be relevant to visitors.

[alhilgendorf]

It's really not all that difficult to stay current. All you have to do is read USA Today for charts and popular reviews. Christian charts and music samples are available online. However, be careful not to mistake being "current" with being "relevant". When a person in the audience hears themself in the music, sees themself in the drama, or hears their situation addressed in the sermon, then we are being relevant. I believe it's much more important to be relevant than it is to be current. Of course it's nice if you can be both, but our society is very fragmented musically and it's only going to get worse. The good news is that most people will listen to anything if it's done with quality, integrity, and if it speaks to them. And if it has a good beat and you can dance to it.

[russhutto]

Great pint Al. Got me thinking too.

Sometimes it's really really important to identify WHO we are ministering to as well. I know it's really cool and Biblical to try and be all things to all people so that we might reach one, but sometimes it's better to just narrow down and really do less for more impact.

We only do 2 typs of songs in our worship set. Soulful (a la Israel, Hillsongs, etc.) and Rock Worship (a la United, Lincoln Brewster, etc.)...Not that we couldn't pull off a bigger variety, but we've identified that our congregants connect with those 2 very well...

IF we tried to bust out a more 80s keyboard-driven version of "Mighty Warrior" it would fall flat. But bust out Mary, Mary's "Shackles" with an orignal rap bridge right in the middle of it and our people are really enjoying and participating.

Sometimes variety is the spice of life, other times there can be way too much pepper.

[stephen_can_man]

Great discussion! I think that all of these are great suggestions, the two most important sources for me are the internet and talking to people, people on our worship team or people who we are trying to target.

We really represent 4 categories for special music in our church. I have a person in each category that helps me find lyrically solid songs. We have popular music from 60's, 70's and 80's (Eagles, James Taylor, Beatles, Stones etc). I jokingly call it old fart music, but it is VERY popular with our regular church members. Then we have our more modern pop songs (John Mayer, Goo Goo Dolls, Matchbox 20) which are easy for me to find because it is what I like. Next we have Air One songs (Christian Rock) which are the rock/pop style songs like Jeremy Camp, Reliant K , Kutlass, etc. Our youth pastor knows this music real well. And the last category for special music is K-love (Soft-Christian). This music is the second most popular in our church, and it includes artists like Michael W Smith, Point of Grace, Steven Curtis Chapman, Mercy Me etc. Most of this music makes me a little nauseous, but our people love it so we do it. A lot of people like country too, so I supplement that want with MercyMe, Steven Curtis Chapman, and Phillips Craig and Dean because alot of people HATE country.

Then we have two categories for worship songs. Old contemporary and new contemporary. Old contemporary is like Open the Eyes of My Heart, More love more Power, Shout to the Lord etc. Then we have new contemporary with songs like Everlasting God, All to You, Your Grace Is Enough etc. We focus on new worship songs for worship, with the occasional older song.

In planning for services we try and pick a target group that we are trying to reach, either in the community or the congregation and then choose our songs around attendance patterns. We mix these categories up a lot and even within the same service. We always have more worship songs than special songs and we seat the congregation for special songs unless it is something everyone knows and want to sing along to. Another change we are making is doing only 4 songs. In the past, we did 5 or 6, and the quality really suffered.

The last few weeks we have done a series about scars. We have done secular and Christian songs. "Scars in the Making" by Disciple has been our background music for videos, and we did the songs "Scars in the Making" by Fuel, "Less Like Scars" by Sara Groves, and this week we are doing "Heal the Wound But Leave the Scar" by Point of Grace. For Thanksgiving we are doing a Natalie Merchant song that was popular in mid 90's "Kind and Generous" and we are also doing a Leeland song "Carried to the Table". Before this series started we had a week about friendships and we did a song medley of You got a friend in me, You got a friend, and Lean on Me. That week was very popular.

I guess to answer your question, it is hard work staying relevant and current, but the rewards are changed lives...and a whole lot of fun!

[maydavidj]

Wow. Where I live there are maybe two Christian radio stations. But, they play the same old stuff. From the "Here I Am to Worship" days. (Not that there's anything wrong with those songs; we still use them some) It just seems like we do a lot more current music than our CMR stations are playing. I just heard them play Baloche's "Hosanna" a couple months ago. :(

[Kevin E.]

You might also check out what some other ministries are doing. 722.org (http://722.org) might be a good place to start.

-travis

Yeah! They are amazing!

[twc_admin]

anytime there is threads about being "relevant", I always feel the need to chime in. Don't overdo it ... I mean, let's reach the lost, yes ... but we (the church) were never intended to LOOK LIKE THE FREAKIN' WORLD ...

That's not to say we can't use some of what's popular in the world and employ it for God's Kingdom - we do that all the time at SSCC (http://www.sscommunitychurch.com).

However ... I'm 100% convinced that true, Spirit-led love, sincerity, and authenticity are the most timeless, "relevant" things you can offer. You really don't have to try and look like the world to bring people in ... just offer something AUTHENTIC and REAL. Actually show LOVE instead of criticism. I'm telling you - do these things, and people will hear about it, associate your people with your church, and they will WANT TO COME. And once they are there, it won't matter so much if you are singing the secular "Top 40" to make them feel accepted - my guess is they are looking for something DIFFERENT.

I fear the church, in the name of being "relevant" is ultimately looking (and behaving) more and more like the secular "world" that is not our home.

(stepping off soapbox now).

Fred

[milepost13]

Relevance Police...

Nate

[carguy1]

Fred, I certainly agree with what you said. I do think that we need to strive to be relevant, while seeking balance at the same time. While we are not supposed to look like the world, we are called to minister to people where they are. So, if you are in a community where a certain style of music dominates the people preference, then I think we have a responsibility to incorporate some of that into our service.

My biggest concern with all this talk of relevance is not becoming stale. While I love hymns and many of the "Classic" praise and worship stuff, any music can become kinda stale if your repertoire is not updated ever so often with new stuff. Let’s remember what Paul told the church at Corinth, “I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.” 1 Corinthians 9:22 NIV. Paul was not saying that we were to enter the lifestyles of those we want to reach, but we do need to relate to them and minister to them where they are.

[patdryburgh]

anytime there is threads about being "relevant", I always feel the need to chime in. Don't overdo it ... I mean, let's reach the lost, yes ... but we (the church) were never intended to LOOK LIKE THE FREAKIN' WORLD ...


Hey Fred,

I've heard a lot of Christians use this idea of the church avoiding looking like the world to attack those who use secular music in their services (note: I am NOT saying that's what you're doing. In fact, I agree with what you've said about living in authentic community 100%.)

It seems to me that when the bible talks about us looking like the world, it is talking about character issues. The world is unloving, ungraceful, unmerciful, dishonest, etc. I really don't think it matters if our church buildings are designed with the latest architectural designs in mind, or if our websites include the latest in web-based technology, or if our music uses electric guitars and drums. These aren't the marks of a Christian, or of a church. Our "trademark" needs to be love, grace, acceptance.

Pat

[twc_admin]

Hey Gang,
I'm certainly not against doing cool music, "secular music", etc., ... it's all about purpose and reason, and of course - staying true to the Word. As long as the MESSAGE of CHRIST is not only spoken, but lived - that's the main thing.

[worshiptrench]

Oh no, i feel the secular vs sacred debate emerging again.....ahhhhhh. I'm gonna have to take the Led for a ride so I can miss it.

Seriously, I'll never forget what Louie told me once in oceanographic metaphor...he said you can stand on the beach (be irrelevant), surf the ways (try to stay relevant/hip/cool) or go down deep where the waves start (knowing God).

I see ministries trying to "stay relevant" all the time but their execution is so poor that is comes across as just stupid. (Ex. Let Bono do Bono 99% of the time. Unless you "gots someone" who can wail or else you totally trip out the arrangement). Even if you can pull it off well, it has to have soul (or else it becomes plasticy like several mega-churches I know who can pull off anything but it doesn't ever move you). It has to be authentic to who you are. We are always super careful. In fact, I would rather do something the congregation doesn't know (secular or sacred) for a special feature so the "instant comparison" doesn't start. Just a thought.

(also, might I suggest a great read on this...Jim and Casper Go to Church [available at amazon] about a guy who takes an atheist to tons of well known churches. interesting to see his reaction).

[stephen_can_man]

I agree, stick to what you are good at! Lately I have found out though that people are pretty forgiving for a live version of a song...that said, don't make it painful for people.

[El Ben]

*yawn*

This thread makes me sleepy.

:)

Just kidding. All of this stuff is necessary to hash out, but I just wish it wasn't such a big dang deal. I unerstand why it is, of course, but still...it's just non-stop.

It's just so difficult to rationalize modern marketing techniques with ancient and timeless, yet somewhat abstract truths. The balance between the two is a tricky thing indeed.

[chipshot0701]

Back to the original message, of relevant to the cause. You can find the top 100 songs downloaded for ccli play at churches nationwide at songselect.com and reference to that list as to wether you are doing the top 100 or not. Then after you reflect on your current song list grow it outward from there. These songs are relevant to the church and its causes.
my two cents worth, yet I've got a dollar in my pocket to spend! :)
mike

[carguy1]

Thanks. Ultimately, I was not trying to spawn a debate on Revelance. I just wanted to know a good way to stay up on what was going on in the Christian music industry.

[patdryburgh]

Just thinking about it, probably a very great resource can be found right here on this website, under the "worship confessionals" forum. I imagine that those who post those (I will start soon!) are trying to keep as current as anyone else.

[chipshot0701]

yeah, but this website is the obvious site to use for music selection and staying current. DUH! RIGHT!
lol

[worshiptrench]

oh yeah, that's easy BITTORRENT and Limewire...

i am joking of course...

[Psalmist]

I agree that the conversation is necessary! What I see a lot in my part of the world are churches who have become so "relevant" that there is NO connection to God. They are having feel good services on Sunday morning and drawing lots and lots of people. But overall, there is nothing that encourages folks (seekers and "believers") to seek relationship with God. They hear a good message that advocates the lives they're already living. But the key components of Christianity - recognizing one's lost state and the need for a Savior, knowing Christ is that Savior, accepting His forgiveness, allowing the Holy Spirit to begin a supernatural work and change the condition of your heart, and then seeking a relationship with God - those things are not taught.

I can think of secular songs that CAN be used during a service themeatically (sp ???) like Josh Groban's 'You Raise Me Up'. But I don't know that our body would fully embrace a blanket use of "secular songs to draw."

Keep the discussion going...

[worshiptrench]

Should “secular” songs ever be used in worship? (See our Imagine book link for a great discussion the false bifurcation between the secular and the sacred, hence our reason for the quotes here.) We use “secular” songs for the following reasons:

1. To create a learner need moment that the Sermon-worship will answer.
We did Dylan’s All Along the Watchtower in a message series entitled The Panic Room (one of our rare movie ripoffs). The song’s lyrics basically say the whole world is coming to an end yet people are unaware of it. During the song, the screen was filled videos of Chernobyl, riots, kidnapping, disasters, etc. At the end of the song, we had a little girl singing lines from “He’s got the whole world, in His hands” over a picture of a nuclear explosion. It made the hearer’s say, “Does God really have things under control, or is that just the Sunday School answer I have?” Then we answered the question in the message.

2. To get people out of their ecclesiological bubble to deal with the questions the world is posing.

Many times the church is answering questions the world isn’t asking. To counter this, we use secular music to broach the questions. We once showed the Smashing Pumpkins Rat in a Cage video and Bob dissected the video’s presuppositions and a biblical response to that worldview. It made a lot of our church people realize that the world was voicing questions in a different language then they often spoke. Very cool service.

We DON’T use secular music:

To make lost people feel comfortable or have a point of identity in the service.

We might do a total of 5 “secular” songs all year that are actually done by the band and not a video backing or somesuch. It has to be a really tight fit for us to go that way.

(originally posted at http://www.worshiptrench.com/?p=128)

[stephen_can_man]

We did the song Take It Easy by the eagles...There was not a good tie-in from our pastor and it bugged me a lot. We talk and discuss how we are going to use songs in our service all the time and also how we are going to tie it in, but, it doesn't really matter if the pastor doesnt know where he stands stylistically or theologically. I like to reference or discuss every secular song we do, and our pastor is so disconnected he doesnt even know when it isnt a christian song! I think for some congregations it really makes a difference, but it doesnt really even seem to matter with our people...and that kinda bothers me!

[El Ben]

In your situation, stephen, what I'm sensing is that it's not about staying current (i.e., using "cutting edge" techniques to engage your body of believers).

Sounds to me like there is a very clear, very real disconnect between your pastor's style of leadership and your style of leadership.

The unfortunate thing with pastors who lack strong leadership skills is that they create leadership vacuums that practically suck stronger leaders into them. After hearing some of your frustrations, let me break down what's gonna happen:

1.) Your pastor is going to realize the error of his ways and step it up a notch, making it his personal mission to become more connected with how his parishioners think. I've seen this happen, and it is not impossible.

2.) Your frustration will continue to grow until you either decide to leave or to force the pastor out. I'm not saying you want to do this now, but your frustrations will drive you to this. Trust me, experience speaks here.

I know you don't want to hear this, heck, I don't want to say it, but you're going to have to address the differences between the leadership styles of you and your pastor or you're going to end up with the latter situation over the former.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: feelings (especially of frustration) do not just "go away." They HAVE to be dealt with. I'm not saying this to loud you out or to make it sound like I know everything there is to know about leadership, there's just only two roads that these feelings of frustration can go down if you don't deal with them.

How do you deal with them? The heck if I know. I'm still trying to figure that one out myself.

[NLoomis]

Do you get JoyFM? Dan Brody goes to our church and apparently there are a few people who listen to JoyFM that don't go to church. What I do is check the radio station websites and look at their top 20. The top 20 is usually newer stuff that I can pick through and add a couple of them per month. Spirit FM and Joy FM both have top 20 lists but I'm not sure about Z88.3. I'm assuming those are the stations you're talking about.

We're really careful about using too much Joy FM stuff, since their target audience is a 35-50 mom with 2 kids, driving a minivan, listening to the radio in the car. It's not our target, so we don't follow their lead too much.

Just some ideas for you.

Nathan

[alhilgendorf]

Take It Easy? I think I would have loved to hear THAT tie in! :confused:

[carguy1]

Thanks Nathan. I do get JoyFm and listen to at times as well as listening to it on line. I did know they listed their top 20 online. Thanks for that tip. The other station I get is out of Orlando and I can't remember what it is called. I have also been checking out the Billboard top 20 inthe Christian catagory which has actually been very helpful.