Committment and mixed signals

[worshiptheKing]

OK- Here we go.

As you know I assumed the worship leader spot at a small church. During the process of hiring, visiting, meeting, participating, meeting, etc., the lead pastor expressed an interest in taking the music ministry to the next level, ie: contemporary music, bigger band, cleaning things up, just doing things better than they have been capable of without a person dedicated to that area. It has been about 5 months now and although we are having some good music during worship time, I am fighting tooth and nail for what I think are neccesities of having a good worship team.
1. practice time- 1 hour Wed. night, 30 mins Sunday morning, usually not a minute more. Pastor does not want to change the practice days or times. By the way, pastor sings on the team. Although the potential is there the talent level is about a 5 on 10 scale. We need more practice time if we are going to grow much less go to the next level.
2. communication- is minimal between pastor and I. He likes it that way. No sermon calendar, no "topic for the week."
3. short attention span- the team has the attention span of a kindergardner. Idle chat, not paying attention, not to mention that when I give out a set list to make notes on no one keeps them or takes notes at practice. Its like we have to start all over at each practice.

I walked into the position with a set of expectaions based on what the pastor said he wanted, but I'm not getting any help achieving those goals.
I may be expecting too much too soon. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can start widdling away at these problems? Is worship ministry/music a bigger priority for me than everyone else?

[milepost13]

I've been in a situation very similar to this...it sounds to me like your pastor's involvement on the team is what's holding you and the team back, and I'll tell you why based on the three issues you've explained:

1. practice time

No wonder he doesn't want to change things...if he's like almost every other pastor in the country, he's a micro-manager - involved in too much and stretched too thin (and based on the fact that he's on the worship team, I can guarantee that's true). He's probably got stuff going on every other night of the week, and he feels that the present schedule is what works best for him. As long as he's on the team, this isn't going to change.

2. communication

Your pastor likes being in control, probably because that's the way he's always had it and that's how he was taught it should be in school and in his early church experience. He doesn't communicate with you because he wants control over this stuff (which probably has to do with a lot of things, not the least of which is the fact that he believes he can do it best). He knows, the more information he gives you to work with, the more control you're naturally going to "take" away from him. As long as he's on the team, this isn't going to change.

3. short attention span

As long as your pastor's on the team, he's going to be the leader (whether anyone verbally/consciously recognizes it or not). He is the only one who can change the maturity of the team. He's setting the standard. The team is the way it is because that's what he wants and allows. As long as he's on the team...

You basically have three options:

1) Get used to the idea that this is how it's going to be and learn to be happy with it. Your pastor isn't going to change unless somebody has the _____ to approach him.

2) Confront what you see to be the issues in a loving and mature way, hoping that the end result will be benificial for everyone involved. (I don't believe you treat this as a sin issue, but simply as a leadership/vision issue)

3) Either step off of the team or find another church so that you can be free of the frustration and involved in something better.

If I were in your position, there's no way I could handle option 1, and there's no way I could simply step off the team but stay in the church knowing that things are not going to change. If you've already attempted option 2, then IMO, your only real option is to walk away completely.

If you haven't attempted option 2 yet (and I mean sitting down with him and really having a good, clear conversation), take some time to collect your thoughts, check your heart and talk to God, consider as much as you can where your pastor is coming from and why he is the way he is, write down as much as you can about what you thought the agreed expectations were when you took the position, consider what you believe to be the surface issues, think through what your vision is for the team in 6 months, 1 year and 5 years, decide what you believe the best solution(s) might be, and ask to sit down with your pastor in a neutral atmosphere with plenty of time to talk. Again, I don't think you approach this with an attitude of correcting your pastor, but with an attitude of having a burden for the perceived problems with the goal of cooperating together for a solution.

I have to be honest...unless your pastor can really see things for the way they really are (that he is the central problem) and sincerely desire to change by stepping down from the team (at least temporarily), I seriously don't see much hope for your situation..

Good luck!

Nate

[worshiptheKing]

Here's some more info though.

Its not just the pastor who wants to keep the practice schedule in place. In his defense, a majority, all but one, team member wants to leave it as is. The reason is that they do not want to commit to another night away from home. You see, we have Wed. night service @ 7, practice @ 8. They don't want to have another night committed, which to me says a lot about their committment to the ministry. I understand that but I am willing to put in the effort to the ministry.

Pastor knooooooows that he cannot do a better job with the music ministry. And I have actually caught him deferring to me at practice. I don't think control is the issue as much as it might be, dare I say, laziness when it comes to communication that is.

He does however contribute to the idle chatter and lack of attention at practice. That to me shows poor discipline for someone who is upposed to be a senior pastor, lack of respect for the person HE chose to lead the ministry team, as well as lack of committment to excellence in music.

I agree that the team will take a step forward if/when he steps away from the music ministry. The problem I have is that I AM the new guy, it is a part time position and he is the senior pastor. Where is the line between rebellion and submission to authority?

I am not one to walk away from a "challenge." Thanks for the input. I look forward to another response.

[milepost13]

Here's some more info though.

Its not just the pastor who wants to keep the practice schedule in place. In his defense, a majority, all but one, team member wants to leave it as is. The reason is that they do not want to commit to another night away from home.

Which, IMO, shows the influence he has on the rest of the team (which is a good thing for a pastor, unless his influence is bad). Let's face it, if your pastor said (and showed with his actions), "I'm really excited about where this ministry is headed, but in order to get where I see us going, we've got to step it up, and here's how..." you'd ultimately be left with those who are just as committed because the rest would either step up or step out. Whether purposely or not, he's in control and is setting the standard.

Nate

[russhutto]

Sr. Pastor on worship team = Bad experience for Worship "leader"

Should it be this way? NO. Is it usually this way? Yes.

1) Practice Time: I'd say a minimum of 2 hours rehearsal time outside of Sunday would be a good place to start. Many churches implement a Thursday night and it works well. You need to talk with your pastor about how "taking it to the next level" is going to require more time and rehearsal.

2) Minimal Communication: Is asking for disaster. The Pastor should not have his hand in everything, but you guys should be on the same page, weekly and, dare I say, even daily. For you to effectively pursue the role he has placed you in, he needs to step down. It says several things:

a) He trusts your leadership.
b) He trusts your skillset.
c) He can delegate.
d) He is NOT a control freak. (even if he is)
e) He places more value on training and equipping people than on "being a part of everything"

And I'm sure there's more.

3) Short Attention Span: Oh, how I can relate on this one. I'm currently working out getting our team members (mostly the vocals on our team) to get into "WORK" mode quicker and to stay in that mode for the duration of the rehearsal. For this to happen I'm keeping these factors in mind:

a) 4 out of 6 of our vocalists are women who just happen to be very chatty (not all women, just these 4 specifically).
b) We (as a team) are a small group. I am the "small group" leader. I have to realize that even though there is work to be done, we are still a group of people doing life together. So, I'm trying to figure a way to channel the "social" energy of the group.
c) I have to be honest about how the chattiness slows us down and creates chaos in the middle of a rehearsal. I have to constantly hammer this in until it becomes natural for our team to buckle down at the appropriate times, and to express the "social" energy at the appropriate time.

Some experiments I'm trying:

a) Having snacks at the beginning of rehearsal. Not the greatest for vocalists, but provides a 10-15 minute window for expression of social energy.
b) Creating "5-ers" - during a 2 hour rehearsal session we'll take two 5-minute breaks to grab a water, hit the potty, or whatever. Sometimes it works other times it's hard to "corral" the team back in.
c) Pulling my hair out.

I really agree with Nate about the pastor being on the team. He doesn't need to be. Even if he's the greatest singer in the world. I've heard it said that the "pastor" is the greatest worship leader a church can have, but I don't think this means he needs to be on the team, haha! He'll be a HUGE positive impact on the church leadership atmosphere if he steps aside.

Now, the hard part is letting him know this. Pray, my friend, pray without ceasing.

[Stevie Nature]

Yeah, I agree with the rest of the guys. Your pastor should step back from the team. Personally, I don't know a pastor who wouldn't like a couple extra hours in the week. The last thing they need is to devote time unnecessarily to a ministry that already has someone competent leading it. (At least I'll assume your competent. :D) As far as communicating it the him, that's a little more difficult. I'd just bite the bullet and do it. It's been my experience that worrying about it and mulling it over in your head it the worst part of a situation like this. The conversation probably won't be as bad as you might imagine....I make to promises, though. Just basically explain to him what you've explained to us. You really shouldn't have to worry about a pastor flying off the handle or being overly sensitive. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that if he's in ministry this won't be the worst criticism he's going to get.

As far as attention span goes I think it has to be addresses. To be honest I don't have the magic answer...if any of y'all find it let me know. I have friends of mine on the team who are teachers. I'm like, "I know you guys know better." One thing that helps is having one of the vocalists you trust being the designated vocal leader, that way they can run harmonies and such when you're working with the band. I've also let the team know that more on task we are the sooner we can get out and chat after practice. I also like blindeyesopen's idea of having a little fellowship time when you first get there. It helps people catch up on the week. I'd be specific to let them know that you're doing this to cut down on the chatter during worship.

Anyway, let us know how it goes

[blogitch]

This is my first time to weigh in here in the community because there has been so much more for me to learn than I could contribute regarding contemporary music in worship.

When it comes to a church musicians working in relationship to senior pastors, however, I have more than 25 years of experience in both the best and worst of circumstances.

I believe ALL of the difficulty you face is rooted in the leadership style of the senior pastor and the still very new and developing nature of the relationship.

There are lots of interesting dynamics here...

Choices about how to proceed depend on a couple of things:

1. Is the lack of communication from your pastor rooted in a "seat of the pants" approach to preaching? In other words, can he not tell you what direction he is going in his upcoming message because he'll have no idea himself until Saturday night or Sunday morning?

2. Has he always been a solo pastor so he lacks experience in how to lead in tandem with another.

3. Has he ever himself been a staff member under a senior pastor in his previous ministry experience?

4. Does he "showboat" as a member of the worship team on Sunday mornings or is he a true, blending member of a group? Does his personality allow him to be a follower as well as a leader?

5. Has he expressed any frustration in the progress you've been able to make in accomplishing his desire for a bigger, better, cleaner worship team or does he just seem to be enjoying the fact that he no longer has to be the one responsible for picking a rehearsing the music?

It think this is a salvagable situation but your next steps depend entirely on your response to these questions.

Prayers and blessings,
Charles

[twc_admin]

Spurs,

Man, I feel the pain. Honestly, I would NOT want to be in this situation at all. (Sorry, I know that's not the most encouraging platform to jump from).

Charles has some great insight and questions above. As for the idle chatter, I think that's pretty normal. I'm the worse at that, and I'm the leader. Just yesterday, one of my singers respectfully reminded me to please honor their time and to lay off the funny stories and rabbit trails during practice, so I can relate.

1 hour on Wednesday night and 30 minutes warm up before could be sufficient for your team - depending on how much music you do, and of course, how repetitive it is. Before forcing more practice time, just consider getting more repetitive - learning 10-15 songs really well, and using them often. Once you've done the same song 4-5 times, you really don't HAVE to rehearse it every week.

Just my $.02 - I'd like to weigh in with more, but it's 5:08 and I need to go be Dad and Husband.

[worshiptheKing]

Lots of good input here guys, thanks a lot. Although I read through them quickly I plan to soak them in again shortly. I could add more info but let me just say this. A lot of my frustration and subsequent problems stem from the timing issue. Practice is after Wed. night service, so its late already. I feel like if I can tear practice away from that night and the pastor steps away a lot of progress can be made. Again, great input, thanks a lot. I'll keep you informed through this thread if thats OK.

Be blessed.

[Stevie Nature]

Another quick thought. I think this was already briefly touched upon. Just because no one wants to switch practice times doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. If you set a practice time on another night of the week those who are committed to the ministry will follow you. Those who aren't should be careful not to let the door hit them on the way out. IMHO, that it. (I just learned what that means.)

[worshiptrench]

The Sr. Pastor needs to move out of that ministry so no one can accuse him of it being the Pastor Whatever His Name is Show instead of the Jesus show. We have a firm rule at NorthWood. If you are preaching, you ain't in any worship musical leadership that week. It just puts too much attention on one person.

I would share with him that you are attempting to allow him to minister in the best light, be perceived as a better leader who delegates by the congregation, and protect him from the allegation that he is a glory hog. I would share clearly your plans for the future including your specific goals for 2008. Include goals to increase communication between the two of you (ex. goal of developing a sermon calendar so you can better match music to his messages). If he balks, I'd run from that position like a scalded dog because it won't get better. If he seems interested, be ready for a bumpy but very possible road forward.

[El Ben]

*gulp*

Pastor...on worship team? Eegads, I can barely deal with:

"Let's sing that old hymn..." at which point I go into full-blown panic mode, praying that I know "that old hymn" and that I don't have to endure the extra-painful:

"Just give me a C and follow me."

*cold shudder*

[acousticgal]

And why is it always that "old hymn?" Why can't it be that "wonderful hymn" or something more uplifting?

Sorry, I just had to interject...

[russhutto]

I'm with you. But most of the good ones are old....

[worshiptheKing]

...or leading outside of my direction is not something he does. Remember, I said he completely defers to me when it comes to the music selection, transitions and such. Actually, he lets me direct the entire service up to the point of him stepping forward to bring the message, and I cue him for that. I may have given everyone the wrong impression about the pastor being on the worship team. Your points are still valid about him stepping away from the team, which he has mentioned doing early on, just still waiting on it to happen.

[russhutto]

Cool. Cool. I think the issue is more of a "visual" delegation of leadership that should be the natural outflow of handing the reigns over to you. Even if he is the most humble, deferential team member in the world, it would still be best for the team, for the congregation, and for you as an appointed leader for him to totally be hands off (except for being totally hands on and participating from his seat)...

I've always heard (I think I referred to it earlier) that a pastor can be one of the church's biggest worship leaders, but it doesn't necessarily mean from the stage.

Looks like you're on the right track. Keep up the good work!