leading from electric?

[travisham]

I wanted to hear you guys' thoughts on leading worship from electric guitar. It's something that I've seen done at Sunday morning corporate worship a very small number of times and that I've never tried myself. I've written a few preliminary thoughts on why it makes sense from a contextual standpoint on my blog (http://ofworshipandwitness.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-acoustic-guitar-still-contemporary.html), but I'm really curious to hear what you all have experienced on this issue. Anyone tried it? Anyone use it regularly/all the time? What has been the response from your congregation? Thanks y'all.

-travis

[Stevie Nature]

I had a Carvin AE 185, which is a semi-hollow body electric w/ a piezo bridge pick up. Basically, you can switch between acoustic and electric with the same guitar. I've used this a couple times playing out on a worship set, but never at my church. It worked well, but again it wasn't in my church. If you church is used to electric or is at least a church that is ready for electric I don't see why this would be a problem. I'd say, go for it.

[travisham]

I'm curious why you haven't used it at your church. Would it be for the reasons listed (not used to electric / not ready)?

[jefflibby]

I'm pretty sure Tommy Walker leads regularily with electric. I led once with electric at our Wednesday night bible study and it was received well... of course I ran it nice and clean, so it sounded acoustic-ish. That time it was myself on guitar and another team member on djembe.

[Stevie Nature]

Nah, our church is ready. I'm just not very good at electric. :o I'm a better rhythm player, plus I don't have an amp and any good effects. I had an amp that took a dump, and had to borrow the effects I used. We're adding an electric guy here pretty soon who is awesome. It's really just personal preference.

[Milestoneworship]

I'm the only guitarist in my band, so I have to lead with both (at different times of course! I'm not that good yet). Playing electric is an entirely different beast than acoustic, and it is important that I make certain mental adjustments, or things can start sounding...weird.

[worshiptrench]

once again, do both even at the same time....if things get out of hand or you get nervous, with a push of the pan pedal you are back on acoustic...here's how once again boyz and girlz (video post)

http://www.worshiptrench.com/?p=28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-ROOqkNX3E

[travisham]

Jordan, if I remember right Brent was the first one of you two to bring out the electric on Sunday morning. I'm curious what kind of feedback you guys got from folks at the time and how that has changed since then.

[stephen_can_man]

I lead from either guitar. I tried the line six variax and that thing was a piece of crap. Don't waste your money on it. Now I use my Taylor or PRS through my POD XT live. It depends on the sound and transitions in the songs, but, I use whichever the song calls for, or, when the guys in the band cant play the solos. That schecter semi-holobody guitar looked like a good idea, but I am style conscious and it looked like an old mans guitar...Either way, use the instrument that fits the song!

[El Ben]

Two words, one man: Lincoln Brewster. 'Nough said.

[WorshipCity]

Not really sure what we're discussing here?
I mean are we talking appropriateness of leading with an electric guitar opposed to an acoustic? Well, that depends on your congregation and will differ from church to church.

Are we talking skill level? Comfortability? Style? Depends on the player and tools available.

Is this just a sounding board? I'm going with the sounding board and here's my take: The previous worship leader led via the keyboard. I'm a guitarist so I lead with my guitar. I began by using my acoustic. My guitarist made a separate pedal board with left over effects after upgrading his and had an extra amp. I began practicing on the electric and began bringing it out for a song or 2 a service when it needed 2 electric guitar parts. Now, I'm fully comfortable, fully capable, and fully confident with the electric so I don't even think about it. I don't think I've ever used one for the entire service however, because there's typically a time when I need the acoustic. I've only had 1 time when swapping was a problem (I stepped on my strap!) It just takes some preparation to work on the transition but it's never been awkward.
The congregation's response? That was in part of the point of the mini history lesson. I don't know if they notice or care. Moving to guitar led worship helped 'contemporize' our sound which is what was appropriate and desired from our church. Moving to the electric? It's always been done on a song that if they were to hear it on the radio or CD would sound that way anyway so it fits. I've always made sure I'm comfortable playing with it and been able to worship while doing it and never had a problem.

[worshiptrench]

Not one negative comment, but then our lead electric was already pretty cranked so there wasn't much noticeable difference unless we chose edgier songs (such as our Kashmir version of C. Hall's Salvation that is a burnin arrg if I might say so myself). No one reacted to the guitar nor would I expect them to in our context.

[lindsayward]

I know this is an older thread, but I haven't checked in here for a while.
I have been using a Line 6 Variax 600 for the last few months in my leading. I just got the POD X3 Live, so it's a good match and I'm loving it.
Perhaps the guy earlier who didn't enjoy his Variax got the 300 and it wasn't setup very well - anyway, I really like mine. It's very nice to be able to get whatever sound I want with one patch change on the POD.
I think this is a pretty-much ideal setup - choose your guitar, amp, effects, etc. and program it all before the service, then just switch between them with your foot. I have occasionally used both acoustic and electric sounds in one song if I'm the only guitarist - like in Mighty To Save where it's all acoustic at the start and then the electrics come in.

[NLoomis]

I usually already have 2 electrics on my team each week, plus myself on acoustic. On the weeks when I don't and need 2, I'll play electric. Last week I played electric on the first 2 songs (Salvation is Here and Everlasting God), then acoustic on the last 2 (Filled With Your Glory and How Great is Our God). Just make sure that if you're switching, that there's no dead space!

Nathan

[stephen_can_man]

The Variax 300 is a piece of crap, but, it is like half of the price of a Variax 600. I might consider trying the 600...

[travisham]

Not really sure what we're discussing here?

...

Is this just a sounding board?

You nailed it: sounding board to hear who has used electric from that primary worship leader position, to find out any tips that they might have, and to see what the transition may looked like assuming that they at some point along the way moved from always leading from an acoustic guitar. Sorry for not getting back here to answer that question for 6 and a half months :o, but I do have good news - a about a month ago I gave electric a shot and it went pretty well. Two weeks later I brought it out again and it went even better.

I spent some time the other day blogging through some of the experience and sharing a few tips on what helped us in making the transition. Check it out if you're interested: 7 tips on introducing electric guitar in corporate worship (http://ofworshipandwitness.blogspot.com/2008/05/7-tips-on-introducing-electric-guitar.html)

[stephen_can_man]

Those are some good tips for churches who are not open to this. I thought the question was more from a practical stand point like, how to do it. I am contacting a one of the lead guitarists from Casting Crowns and seeing how he got some acoustic sounds out of his PRS. I will update you all when I find out...

[alhilgendorf]

I lead from electric quite often but I plan the songs accordingly. There are some songs that just sound better led from the acoustic. Same with the piano, which I lead from once in awhile too. I like to lead from different instruments to keep things fresh, but I select songs that fit those instruments. If that sounds restrictive or contrived, it's not really. You can play an electric like an acoustic, it gives the song a different texture. For instance, "Here I Am To Worship" played with open chords on a clean middle pickup Strat or mid setting humbuckered (?) guitar can sound quite nice. Maybe add a little chorus or light flange.

[stephen_can_man]

I tried leading last week with the Boss AC-3 acoustic simulator, just for a couple verses here and there. My impression was that it sounds kinda thin, but, it can get you through an intro or quiet part if you are like me and play lead guitar and rhythm. It sounds like a cheap acoustic, but, if you turn the bottom up a little it helps. It is difficult to get a good sound dialed in, and there is some hiss in the background, but, it's better than a Variax and the only solution for acoustic and electric.

I have the pedal set up on the top of my pedal board just after my Volume/Wah. The pedal has two outputs, 1 that goes to the PA and the other that goes to the rest of my effects. When the pedal is on, it mutes the signal to the other pedals. When it is off, it will send the signal through to the pedals and on to my amp. I send the PA signal into the same direct box that my regular acoustic guitar is using, that way I have the acoustic sounds in one channel which helps with the aviom.

It works, but, it sounds nothing like my Taylor. Nobody even noticed, but, I did, and it will never replace an acoustic. Like I said, it can work in a pinch.

[alhilgendorf]

I've tried a few acoustic simulators but, as you said, they all tend to sound thin and cheap. Plus the visual aspect of it has always been kind of weird for me, you know, seeing an electric but hearing a cheap acoustic.

[Stevie Nature]

About the best sound I've heard with one guitar with both and acoustic and electric sound is from a Carvin AE 185. I used to use it exclusively for the acoustic sound and had a ton of praise for it. It has two separate jacks so one can go direct out into the system, and the other to an amp. I got mine new for like $1100. If any of you guys are thinking about a new guitar you might want to look into it.

[hefdaddy42]

The best solution for the "acoustic AND electric sound from one guitar" problem is an electric with a Piezo pickup, like the Ernie Ball John Petrucci signature model, or the aforementioned Carvin.

[Stevie Nature]

I've also seen the Taylor T5, which looks pretty sweet, but the Carvin is right around 1/3 the price.

[hefdaddy42]

I've also seen the Taylor T5, which looks pretty sweet, but the Carvin is right around 1/3 the price.
I haven't seen that Taylor model. I will check it out.

[Stevie Nature]

You can check out some demos on youtube. It looks nice, but there would really be no reason for me to get it since I have the Carvin. I really don't play it much, though. I have a pretty nice Breedlove acoustic, which I lead from. I need a new amp before there's much reason for me to use the Carvin again. My old amp died on me.

[Mark Jaffrey]

I think it's better, if you need an acoustic sound, to use an acoustic guitar. Unless you're just hacking away, you will surely miss the dynamics and response of the real instrument under your fingers, let alone the loss of tone, timbre, harmonics etc.

I love leading on my electric. I mostly use my maple strat and I use the out of phase sound between the bridge and middle pickups for my base clean sound. It strums well, you can add in a little compression to dig in on riffs and licks which boosts the sound so it cuts through the mix a little, and it will give you a good rich clean sound without being overpowering like a full humbucker sometimes can be.

I have four patches set up that allow me to progressively increase the gain and drive as a song builds so that the sound thickens up where appropriate, from grit through crunch, leading up to a full-on searing lead sound.

The other reason I like leading on electric is the range of textures I can produce to complement the rest of the band - tremolo, spacey delays, dotted eighths - with the right combo of effects it really gives you a huge flexibility to get creative and fit your sound to wherever you feel the worship needs to go.

[Stevie Nature]

Mark,

Have you ever tried a Carvin AE185? I was pretty skeptical until I tried it. I mean, it doesn't feel like an acoustic, but it does sound like an acoustic. I broke it out the other night at practice and I'm telling you, you'd be hard pressed to hear a difference. The reason I like it is because you don't have to go through all the trouble of switching guitars, you just twist a knob. I'm getting a new amp soon, so I'll be using it again for worship.

[Tim.Crook]

I lead with electric most of the time. I only switch to acoustic for certain slow songs like Captivate Us and Knees To The Earth, both by WaterDeep. We even use alot of drive. Everybody seems to like it ok. I think it all depends on if you set it all up right. Good tone and such.

[Tim.Crook]

I've also seen the Taylor T5, which looks pretty sweet, but the Carvin is right around 1/3 the price.

I have't played the T5 yet, but I've seen it in action some. It's stinkin awesome!!!!

Ibanez has come out with one too called the Montage, but I haven't seen or heard it in real life. Only in a NAMM video on youtube.

[Mark Jaffrey]

@Stevie Nature,

I might have to look one up when I go back to the UK in August. They just aren't available here. In fact we have precious little gear in the three or four music stores, and as electric guitar isn't a popular instrument in Egypt, you can only find budget models from the big names - Fender, Gibson, Yamaha etc.

[Stevie Nature]

Mark,

I didn't realize you're in Egypt. I guess I could have read the top of your post. Anyway, how are things there? Are you from Egypt or a missionary there? You said something about going back to the UK. Anyway, please let me know what God's doing there.

Anyway, about the Carvin. They are only factory direct. You may be able to find one used to check out, though. I tried to find one here before I bought it, but couldn't. I ended up just taking the plunge, and ordering one. They have a 30 day return policy so I figured I was safe. Needless to say I didn't return it. I know they ship internationally. If you're in the market you may want to order one. Worst case scenerio you can return it it 30 days. I know that I love mine.

[Stevie Nature]

Tim,

I checked out the Montage on youtube. I didn't really like the sound as much as the Carvin. It sounded like a mediocre acoustic mixed with a mediocre electric. I don't know, though. It might have been what they were running it.

[Tim.Crook]

It's definately not a T5. I wanna play and hear one in real life before I make my final judgement on it. I've never heard the carvin either, but it's a carvin so i spect it's sweet :D

[Kevin Gaskill]

I'll lead with an electric, unless the piano player or the acoustic guitarist isn't going to be there, then I'll go acoustic. The Carvin AE185 is an awesome guitar, I used mine for years before I went to a Strat. I would run the acoustic side through a preamp and di direct into the PA. A preamp, I used a cheap behringer adi21, and just a touch of chorus improves the alrealy good acoustic sound tremendously. Here's a pic.

Kevin

http://cn4080.home.coastalnet.com/nomad.jpg

[Stevie Nature]

I was tracking with you until you said chorus on the acoustic. That makes me sad. :( Just a personal opinion.

The Carvin has a surprisingly full sound going through just a normal direct box. The setup I'm eventually getting once I get an amp...and then some more money... is using a stereo cable out into an Ernie Ball stereo pan pedal. Something I saw one the Worship Trench. One input into a L.R. Baggs Para DI, which I already have and the other through whatever pedals I pick up along the way. I can't wait!!!!

[Tim.Crook]

Anybody tried the Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II yet? It's another "hybrid". Just wonderin if anybody's played/ heard one. It's about half the price of what an AE-185 would cost me.... if I could actually afford it that is :D

[Stevie Nature]

I don't know, man. From what I've heard from the demos on youtube it sounded pretty thin. It really didn't seem to have a full acoustic sound like the Carvin. You can get a stripped down AE 185 for like $999 new. If it's me I'd just wait a little longer to save the extra $300 over the Les Paul. If a guitar just sounds like an electric trying to be an acoustic, then really what's the point? You can get a bad acoustic sound from an electric through one of those "acoustic" pedals. I think for the price the Carvin is worth it. Even at a lower price I don't think the Les Paul is.

Man, I reall wish I had a digital camcorder so I could put a post up for you guys on youtube or something.

[Tim.Crook]

lol. If I get the Carvin it's gonna cost me around 1400. If i pony up for I'm gonna go ahead and get it tricked out the way I want it :)

[Stevie Nature]

What extras would you be getting? Mine has the coil splitter, phase switch option, and the inline headstock, and it was like $1200. I mean, I agree, if you're going to do it, then do it right, but what would put the price up that high? Anyway, if you're going to try to save money on a guitar I'd say get a Carvin a little less tricked out as opposed to the Les Paul.

[Tim.Crook]

Bookmatched quilt maple top, dragonburst finish, satin finish neck, 10" radius neck, stainless frets, abalone blocks and headstock inlay :) all the bells and whistles.

Also I found this vid of the Les Paul Ultra II and the acoustic doesn't sound that bad to me. I'd still like to play one in real life and thru an acoustic amp just to see what it can do.
Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGT_Gzs2NY

[Stevie Nature]

I just sounds thin to me, but he's probably also going through an electric amp. It may sound better through a PA. I guess there's only one way to find out.

[Tim.Crook]

That's why I wanna get my hands on one to try it out. I wish you could find a way to post some vids of you carvin too. I could only find one on youtube and it wasn't very good... I think it may have been operator error tho lol

[Stevie Nature]

Yeah, I saw that one...that's why I didn't refer to it. Even the audio clips they used to have on Carvin's site weren't very good. They were basically some guy shredding on acoustic. Like I said, before I actually tried it I was very skeptical, which basically defeats my argument about the Les Paul. :rolleyes: I just remembered my folks have a digit camcorder. I'll see if I can borrow it.

[Stevie Nature]

So I got my new amp in. Sweet. Anyway, I tried the piezo pickup through the amp just to see. It didn't sound very good, though it does sound great through a PA. Those other guitars might actually sound decent under the right conditions. Who knows?

[Trent]

I lead from electric now and then. I have a Korean PRS singlecut that I dropped duncan pickups in--Seth Lover neck, D59 bridge--I love it. I also designed/built an adjustable amp stand for my amp. The back and sides are enclosed and it can tilt anywhere between 40 and 85 degrees. It cuts any noise coming from the back of the amp so I can reduce stage volume.