help re:drums

[nathan k]

I would love some feedback/wisdom:
I lead from the keyboard, have a very small group (drums, another singer, sometimes a bass guitar, some times an accoustic guitar). I don't have tonnes of experience leading a group. (church size is small, too -- so far there's usually been less than 60 people for a service). The drummer hasn't gone through any formal training, and I'm more than grateful to have him -- it adds a LOT to the service!! However, sometimes when we're into a song, we've either slowed down or sped up at the transitions/build-ups, or come in too fast or slow. I've given signals to speed up or slow down or build up, but it's challenging for him to change the tempo during a song.

I've tried getting him to watch my head bob or foot tap or ears twitch (almost), without being too distracting, and I'm wondering what I can learn from some of you guys.

All of us on the team have pretty demanding full time jobs, so it's a challenge to meet real regularly for practise, but even tips on what/how we could work on this would be great.

[BillyChia]

Practice with a metrome or click track. Simple metronomes are pretty inexpensive and usually have a place to pug in a head set that your drummer could wear.

It's especially good to name bpm of the song your are doing. ie "let's do this song at 120." Write it down on the lead sheet along with the road map you are using. Having a number to refer to shows that you are serious about tempo makes it more concrete than simply "faster" or "slower."

I pracitce in front of my computer using this free online metronome:

http://www.metronomeonline.com/ (http://www.metronomeonline.com/)

If tempo is a problem I'd probably shy away from trying to change tempos and just pick one for the whole song.

[El Ben]

An experienced drummer will generally of a song with his drumsticks to start a song. With this guy, you might want to make eye contact with him at the beginning of a song and audibly count it off. I agree with Billy in theory, but practicing with a metronome is VERY unforgiving. Also, I'm a very groove-based vocalist and instrumentalist, and grooves are not always metronome-friendly.

Also, changing tempo mid-song is asking for a train wreck. Better to suffer through the slower or faster tempo and cut the song short than to make a mess of the whole thing.

[russhutto]

My question is, why would you really NEED to change tempos in the middle of a song? Maybe once in a blue moon, but it shouldn't be something you regularly do UNLESS you're talking about the "ending" where you would maybe slow down just a beat to emphasize the ending.

I'm trained in music theory/comp and have played with just about every ensemble type you can think of, and the biggest take away from all my experience in groups is this...you HAVE TO BE AWARE of where each person is going and you have to have a road map!

With that in mind, you should "talk through" the entire structure of the song before running through it. An inexperienced drummer should be REQUIRED to have some sort of "notebook" or lead sheets in front of them so they can take notes. This will help them remember the "changes" that need to happen in a song.

I'm gonna go with Billy on this one, a drummer should ALWAYS practice with a metronome. When it comes to REHEARSAL though, I'd go without it. By that I mean, when they're at home they should try and play along with a metronome or a "cd" but when it comes time to actually rehearse with others I'd go without it.

The ONLY way a drummer is going to develop consistency in tempo is to practice with a metronome.

Again, I don't think you should really be doing "tempo changes" mid song anyways, but if you're talking more about INTENSITY changes then that has more to do with dynamics/grooves then actual tempo.

I always tell my drummers that when we "build up" to the chorus or a "soaring tag" we shouldn't get faster, we should get more intense. When we come "down" to a quiet, mellow section of the song it shouldn't get slower, it should get less intense.

Now, with that being said, IMO, there's always room for songs to "breathe" to "ebb and flow" so to speak. So if you're hitting a really intense section or a mellow section and you have a variance of 2-3 beats per minute (BPM) that's not the end of the world, but if you're trying to go anything more than about 6-7 faster or slower (especially with more than 2 people) you're only asking for a train wreck.

Sometimes our drummer will "click off" a song too fast or too slow. OR I might start it out on the keys a hair too slow or fast. We have pre-arranged signals that convey the need to either speed it up a "hair" or to back it down a "hair"...

Pick some signals and stick to them. I would also continue to "observe" (and share) when the tempo is inconsistent. The only way it's going to get better is for them to constantly be aware that it needs to get "tighter" (if it's not). I don't mean telling them they stunk, but at least, after you've told everyone how great they sounded on "part A" and how good the vocals did on "bridge X" you should mention that the "BAND" was a little inconsistent on the tempo and it "got away from us" a little bit in "section C"...the drummer (and the rest of the band) will latch on to the fact that consistency is something to strive for.

When they hit it, CELEBRATE it!!

[nathan k]

Again, I don't think you should really be doing "tempo changes" mid song anyways, but if you're talking more about INTENSITY changes then that has more to do with dynamics/grooves then actual tempo.


ya, sorry, I meant more with where you build up or down,(intensity changes) i.e. coming into the chorus, or into/out of the bridge/verse, etc. where "the excitement" overpowers the sense of timing and we drift a bit, either faster or slower off the original tempo.

Sometimes our drummer will "click off" a song too fast or too slow. OR I might start it out on the keys a hair too slow or fast. We have pre-arranged signals that convey the need to either speed it up a "hair" or to back it down a "hair"...

ya, we've had that happen, and when it does, and I've signalled, and he has a tough time speeding it up or slowing it down. At times we've been able to pull it back on track, other times he just wasn't able to. We've chatted about it, just the 2 of us, and he does admit that he has dificulty with it. We've also tried a bit during rehearsal to speed it up, slow it down, just to work on that aspect, in case too much "drifting" occurs.

I appreciate the other advice, too! Good insights and helps. Thanks for sharing. This helps me out a lot.

[BillyChia]

At my church all 4 drummers use a metronome, although not all of them can play with it. For example some of the more skilled drummers keep the click in thier ear and play right along with it. The other drummers listen to the click track and use it to count off the 4 beats to start the song then they turn it off to play the song.

If your drummer is starting songs too fast or too slow then a metrnome sounds immperative. You can say, "Click off four beats at 112bmp" He doesn't have to use the click for the rest of the song, simply to start it. Then you know you are at least starting int he ball park.

@ben I've found that since I started practicing my guitar with a metronome I've become more groovable and not less. This is mostly due to being able to play parts of a song that increase in intensity but shouldn't increase in tempo. When you can play a song that way it lays down an awesomem groove.

[worshiptrench]

Practice with a metronome even as a band....you'll feel where you push or slug. Then if you want, turn it off for actual services (though we play with it on several songs where additional parts, loops etc come flying in and out via a sequencer).

If you practice with and remove for service, it's kind of like a baseball player swinging a heavy bat before he gets to the plate... (Go Rangers, oh yeah, they stink, my bad)

[nathan k]

Thanks.
metronome, here we come!:)

[El Ben]

I've been practicing with a metronome as per you guys' suggestions. I suck, apparently :P. Actually, it's not that bad. It's stretching me.

[worshiptheKing]

You have four/4/quatro drummers? Blessed?